Stauffenberg: A Noble and Hero

[Wuotans Krieger]

It's not treason if you rebel against a traitor, or a lunatic.
In any case, choosing to conform with a wrong strategy strikes me as dumb.

It's better to be arrogant than dumb.

I really don't understand where is the Aryan spirit in you people?
If you need to conform so much with 'the Leader's' views, you can always move to North Korea.

Would you rebel against a leader for whom you know will turn your country into an Orwellian nightmare, or (un)consciously slaughter his own people?

There is no evidence that Hitler was a "lunatic" and certainly not that he was a "traitor". How could he be? He was the living embodiment of the state. All oaths were sworn to him as Fuhrer and Kanzler.
It is contrary to the Ario-Germanic spirit of Teutons to forsake their leader in the field of battle. A cursory reading of Germanic literature of the first millenium will confirm this. To forsake ones leader is infamy and would result in such a person being an outcast for the rest of his days.This is our Aryan spirit.

[Zyklop]

If I was a German, I'd have shot Hitler immediately when he ordered an invasion on Russia.

Unfortunately you are no German...
It says a lot about the "nobility" of those so called aristocrats if you consider that Stauffenberg was shot by one of his co-conspirers who unsuccessfully tried to save his own ass.

[Awar]

There is no evidence that Hitler was a "lunatic" and certainly not that he was a "traitor". How could he be? He was the living embodiment of the state.

Quite so. Like king Louis.

All oaths were sworn to him as Fuhrer and Kanzler.

Interesting. Did Hitler swear an oath that he won't send millions of Germans into a senseless war? Or, at least stop the war, when it was clear that the continuation will cause more German deaths and suffering?

It is contrary to the Ario-Germanic spirit of Teutons to forsake their leader in the field of battle. A cursory reading of Germanic literature of the first millenium will confirm this. To forsake ones leader is infamy and would result in such a person being an outcast for the rest of his days.This is our Aryan spirit.

[Stríbog]

Hey, Kim Jong Il is a Nordic Aryan superhero descended from the Tarim mummies, you race trader! If Genghis Khan was Nordic, then Kim Jong Il can be, too!

[Awar]

Unfortunately you are no German...

It says a lot about the "nobility" of those so called aristocrats if you consider that Stauffenberg was shot by one of his co-conspirers who unsuccessfully tried to save his own ass.

It's not an uncommon thing when it comes to conspiracies,
especially when they are unsuccesful.

In any case, this doesn't speak of Stauffenberg's 'nobility',
as he has a whole life of great achievments before that.

If such a person went against the fuhrer, then, I'd at least
think a bit more about all his motives.

Just because someone is a leader doesn't mean he's infallible,
or that he has good intentions toward his own people.

Aryan Krieger's 'Aryan Spirit ©' is exactly what every tyrant and
dictator from Stalin to Mao to Fidel to Kim Jong Il would
like his entire people to be.

I suppose it's in 'Aryan Spirit ©' to be an informant of the secret police,
or to become cannon fodder.

Hey, Kim Jong Il is a Nordic Aryan superhero descended from the Tarim mummies, you race trader! If Genghis Khan was Nordic, then Kim Jong Il can be, too!

Honouwabble Stwibog. The Nowdic Awyan supewhewo on the magnificent painting above is our Glowious Fuhwew, the guawdian of Awyan peopwe,
ouw fathew KIM IL SUNG! Pwaise!

[Zyklop]

It's not an uncommon thing when it comes to conspiracies,
especially when they are unsuccesful.

In any case, this doesn't speak of Stauffenberg's 'nobility',
as he has a whole life of great achievments before that.

So had Hitler, Göring, Heß...

If such a person went against the fuhrer, then, I'd at least
think a bit more about all his motives.

It was not one person against the Führer but a conspiracy involving very different characters with very different motives. Many of them were Officers disappointed with Hitler´s military decisions but who still wanted to continue fighting against the Soviet Union. Others were reactionary and "aristocratic" Reichswehr officiers who always feared the anti-monarchy course of the NSDAP (that´s why the SA was disempowered in 1934 btw.).
In the mid 1930´s when the first conspirors established contacts with foreign states and told them about their goals they were morally rejected on grounds of breaking their oath as soldiers.

Stauffenberg had no backing from the German population and, even more important, absolutely no backing from the enemy countries. They only accepted unconditional surrender.
This war wasn´t led against Hitler, it was a war against Germany and many allied leaders (including Churchill) confirmed this after the war.
Anyway, would Stauffenberg have seen what became out of Germany after the war and what kind of characters nowadays embrace him as a role model (Jews and traitorous democrats) he probably wouldn´t have attempted anything.

Just because someone is a leader doesn't mean he's infallible,
or that he has good intentions toward his own people.

Hitler´s popularity increased after the failed coup. The moral of the Germans was nowhere anti-Hitler at this time.

Aryan Krieger's 'Aryan Spirit ©' is exactly what every tyrant and
dictator from Stalin to Mao to Fidel to Kim Jong Il would
like his entire people to be.

Loyalty is a virtue and especially for Germans. Ever heard of Nibelungentreue?

btw, did you know that Stauffenberg was one-eyed?

[Awar]

In the mid 1930´s when the first conspirors established contacts with foreign states and told them about their goals they were morally rejected on grounds of breaking their oath as soldiers.

Or, they were rejected on the grounds that the west actually wanted Germany to go to war with Russia, so the USA and Britain could knock both out of existence and feed on the remains.

If Hitler and Stalin actually made true NS or Communist states, then, chances are that the other great powers of the world would fail.

Stauffenberg had no backing from the German population and, even more important, absolutely no backing from the enemy countries. They only accepted unconditional surrender.

Regardless, it would've saved millions of lives in a war already lost.

This war wasn´t led against Hitler, it was a war against Germany and many allied leaders (including Churchill) confirmed this after the war.

I think WW2 was a much deeper conflict than just that.

Anyway, would Stauffenberg have seen what became out of Germany after the war and what kind of characters nowadays embrace him as a role model (Jews and traitorous democrats) he probably wouldn´t have attempted anything.

IMO, if he could foresee what became of Germany after the war, he'd have killed Hitler back in the 1920's.
Hitler gave the biggest excuse for creating this anomaly we all live in.

Hitler´s popularity increased after the failed coup. The moral of the Germans was nowhere anti-Hitler at this time.

Since when are you a democrat? The 'popularity among the people' is such a concept. Milosevic was extremely popular among Serbs, while, at the same time he was pumping billions of dollars out of our economy and into his accounts.

Loyalty is a virtue and especially for Germans. Ever heard of Nibelungentreue?

Yes, it's a character from 'Hansel und Gretel'

btw, did you know that Stauffenberg was one-eyed?

He was a Zyklop?!

[Aristotle]

ΕΥΤΥΧΕΙΤΕ!
Dear Fellows,
I'm very surprised reading this thread! I never expected to read from such important and gentle Persons to admire a pure criminal activity!
Adolf Hitler was the legally ellected Kanzler of Germans! Any attempt against Him was an attempt against German Fatherland and Germans!
Especially, during war-time this criminal activity is considering much heavier even according International Law ( except if there are intelligent persons believing that Law is valid only for Others...)
You have a very bad Idea if you believe that "Nobility" is a good excuse for criminal activity... Stauffenberg attempting to murder the legal Reichskanzler Adolf Hitler was a simply shit! The real Noble doesn't attempt to murder in the dark, in dirty anonimity a National-Leader as Adolf Hitler was, especially during those epic days of Germany. A real Noble present himself before the "Enemy" bearing his armors, emblems, coats etc and starts openly his fight! Stauffenberg was for another time a shit because he violated the basic rules of Nobility! He was near Reichskanzler, he was able to act like a Noble, he didn't, because he was a simple shit, a cow with a "title" because of his financial-level not because of his Heroism something that grades the bravery of the real Noble!
sorry to add, dear Gentlemen: some of us is necessary to restart studying the Chivalry's rules before to decide admiring common criminals!Kindest Regards!

[Zyklop]

Or, they were rejected on the grounds that the west actually wanted Germany to go to war with Russia, so the USA and Britain could knock both out of existence and feed on the remains.

If Hitler and Stalin actually made true NS or Communist states, then, chances are that the other great powers of the world would fail.

True, and there also were attempts to make peace with the West and to fight against bolshevism with joined forces. Hitler´s deputy Rudolf Heß flew to Great Britain in May 1941 on his own account to make peace with Churchill. He was imprisoned for 46 years, spent the last 20 years in solitary confinement and finally was murdered in 1987 by the British Secret Service shortly before his release (so much about the peace-loving allied forces).
Today the annual Rudolf Heß memorial marches in Wunsiedel are the largest nationalist demonstrations in Germany with up to 7000 participants from all over Europe.

I think WW2 was a much deeper conflict than just that.

Interesting that this comes from you. Most of the time I only read about "German Imperialism" in your posts.

Churchill stated after the war:

Germany´s unforgivable crime before WW2 was its attempt to loosen its economy out of the world trade system and to build up an own exchange system from which the world-finance couldn´t profit anymore. ...We butchered the wrong pig.

I´m gonna provide some more quotes later.

IMO, if he could foresee what became of Germany after the war, he'd have killed Hitler back in the 1920's.
Hitler gave the biggest excuse for creating this anomaly we all live in.

In such a case the Treaty of Versailles would have starved to death more Germans than WW2 had killed and we would have Kolchose from Siberia to Brittany.

Since when are you a democrat? The 'popularity among the people' is such a concept. Milosevic was extremely popular among Serbs, while, at the same time he was pumping billions of dollars out of our economy and into his accounts.

I wanted to refuse your accusation that Hitler acted against the will of his people. Anyway, Hitler wasn´t corrupt. Even anti-German writers confirmed this, for example Joachim Fest.

Yes, it's a character from 'Hansel und Gretel'

No, it´s out of German folk mythology (Nibelungenlied) and means more or less loyalty to the death.

He was a Zyklop?!

But no award for him!

[Marius]

It is contrary to the Ario-Germanic spirit of Teutons to forsake their leader in the field of battle. A cursory reading of Germanic literature of the first millenium will confirm this. To forsake ones leader is infamy and would result in such a person being an outcast for the rest of his days.This is our Aryan spirit.

This is so very true.

Where I think you are being misleading is that there was no field of battle, especially at the beginning of Hitler in power. And rebeling against a disturbed person, should have been done before even arriving to the vote. But it happens that many disturbed persons to have had a power to submit and to enchant masses of people.

I think WWII started because the kind like Hitler were able to inflate the tribal and subhuman part of each individual. Persons able to get and inflate the worst in someone, always existed. Don't you agree?

So I am not advocating the idea of murdering leaders. But I am advocating the idea of not chosing dement leaders. The curse of Germans bears the name Adolf Hitler. They had only troubles consequently the arrisal of such a man.

The problems of those times could surely have been solved differently than by killing millions of people, especially Germans, in war.