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Thread: Stauffenberg: A Noble and Hero

  1. #111
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    Reality and Legacy of the 1944 'Valkyrie' Conspiracy to Kill Hitler

    Mark Weber – Audio recording

    In July 1944 a group of German conspirators tried to kill Hitler and violently seize power in Berlin. The conspiracy's most dynamic figure was Col. Claus von Stauffenberg, who set a bomb to kill Hitler. Although it killed three men and seriously injured others, Hitler survived with only minor burns and bruises. In Germany today the anti-Hitler conspirators are honored as exemplary men of courage, conscience and principle. They are similarly portrayed in a major US motion picture, "Valkyrie," starring Tom Cruise and Kenneth Branagh. But this idealized portrayal is a "politically correct" distortion of reality. The attempt to assassinate Hitler and seize power was doomed to fail, and in fact collapsed very quickly, because it was poorly planned and ineptly organized, because it was based on a brazen lie, and because the conspirators did not understand the sentiment in the German military and among the German people. They also totally misunderstood the attitude of the Allied leaders, who sought not merely to destroy the Hitler regime, but Germany as a nation. By today's standards, von Stauffenberg and the other leading conspirators were "Nazis." They supported the policies and principles of the National Socialist government for at least five years, and only belatedly turned against the Hitler regime.
    http://ihr.org/audio/archives/realit...cy-kill-hitler

  2. #112
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    I have tried to keep out of this discussion since this ought to be for Germans, BUT if someone bombed say Obama's car would anyone on the left say that bomber was a hero? This is all an agenda driven discussion. And only by contortions can anyone say that during a war to kill the war-leader by stealth is a heroic act.

    On the other hand, if you are writing a book titled: Germany, a Country Defined by Betrayal, well, it just fits right in.

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    Staff note: Discussion split and merged from this thread.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfaz View Post
    I am an new/old member of the Skadi forum. Before the Great Shutdawn I was Wulfaz (the ancient german version of "Wolf"). Henceforth you could call me as Stauffenberg after graf Stauffenberg, the anti-fascist german hero.
    The traitor Von Stauffenberg wanted an authoritarian, monarchist German state would have certainly had nothing to do with your anti-fascist ideas. That's point one!

    Second point: A National Conservative should be formed and information on their own national history. And who as Nationalsozialist so insulted me, like you do here, because I call a Nationalmasochisten!

    In this sense, good day!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordmann View Post
    The traitor Von Stauffenberg wanted an authoritarian, monarchist German state would have certainly had nothing to do with your anti-fascist ideas. That's point one!

    Second point: A National Conservative should be formed and information on their own national history. And who as Nationalsozialist so insulted me, like you do here, because I call a Nationalmasochisten!

    In this sense, good day!
    Oberst Claus Schenk graf von Stauffenberg was a democrat, the enemy of the nazis. The flag of his movement, the Wirmer-flag was proposed as a national flag of Germany by the CDU. The high traitors were the nazis, they betrayed Germany with the genocide, the war, the destruction of the country. Stauffenberg had nothing to do with the authoritarian conservatives whos rised the nazis from the political scum.

    If Stauffenberg was an authoritarian why the BRD celebrate his movement?

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    Stauffenberg had very little to do with postwar antifascism. Then the conservatives (aristocrats) thought Hitler was akin to the German left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfaz View Post
    Oberst Claus Schenk graf von Stauffenberg was a democrat, the enemy of the nazis.
    Stauffenberg was a monarchist who wanted to occupy the offices of state with nobles and wanted to maintain the previous state in coarse whole.

    Why do I call him a traitor? Because he tried in times of greatest need his people his leadership to deprive the midst of war of life or death in this world! This is a betrayal of his own people, on land, at home! Given only selfish character cripples are able to think only of themselves and how they could make a career on the side of Germany's enemies!

    If Stauffenberg was an authoritarian why the BRD celebrate his movement?
    Because they do not know exactly how YOU, our German national history and how lemmings parroting everything is pre tells them!

    He read my signature. Listen to the own Sagung the people and not the wrong word of the enemy court!

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    How many times has this argument been heard here? Too many for men, and going back years. What is in a name anyway? So long as that person is for Germanic Preservation I don't care if he is a communist, a Nazi, a Democrat, or whatever.

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    Your argument is evidence of historical amnesia. For names and deeds are always accompanied inevitably. And the fact that man was a betrayal of his own people that was in the war. For the enemies of Germany, there was only one goal: the destruction of Germany's power! This was decided the plutocratic oligarchy which then as now still half of whose Jews and can call the number and high finance. A Stauffenberg would have achieved nothing at all would have been except that Germany overpowered leaderless.

    Adolf Hitler sat down for obtaining the Germanic world with its peace petitions to England because he knew that in war die first always the best sons of the people. But the whiskey tippler Churchill and the German-hater Roosevelt wanted to Germany off because of its strong economic power. It was all of them, even Stalin, not to Nazism to Hitler, but rather to eliminate the German people as competitors on the world markets. This war was to bring no war for freedom and democracy to Germany. This is post-war propaganda.

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    Stauffenberg's legacy has been misrepresented by social justice warriors and particularly anti-fascists, who choose to ignore certain facts of the time and present a skewed image of his persona, simply because he tried to assassinate Hitler.

    Stauffenberg was hardly an anti-racist/fascist to begin with, not according to his contemporary and certainly not by today's definition and standards; there is in fact little to no evidence to support the modern theory that the plot to assassinate Hitler was planned primarily with the interests of foreign groups or countries in mind. He had also quite vocally objected to the inclusion of the political left in the conspiracy. One only needs to examine his background, upbringing and beliefs more closely in order to question such modern myths.

    First Stauffenberg was noble by birth and came from a long line of aristocrats. He was raised and educated in the milieu of Bavarian nobility, with a strong sense of their aristocratic heritage. He learned activities which required a sense of organization and discipline such as fencing and horse riding and developed an anti-egalitarian sentiment and elitist world view. He respected the people but loathed the mob, so I find it hard to believe that nowadays’ social justice “warriors” could have found any favor in him, quite the contrary, he would have probably despised much of their act.

    Politically, he was hence more of a monarchist/aristocrat than NS, although he did hold nationalist views as it was customary of the time, and which actually lead him to be supportive of the early NS policies. He felt a sense of loyalty and duty towards his nation and supported the liberation of his folk from the humiliating shackles of Versailles. He was consequently involved in many major military campaigns and risked his life to defend his country and people.

    Stauffenberg supported an all-German consciousness as well as the defense /reestablishment of Germanic leitkultur in ethnic German communities (e.g. through his support of the intervention regarding ethnic Germans in Poland); he was not politically correct and could be critical of other groups and elites (actually some of his remarks on Polish Jews could be considered "antisemitic" by today's standards), but at the same time his main focus was his own people, so he drew a fine line between fair criticism and rabid, obsessive anti-Jewish rhetoric. He became repulsed by the later/wartime NS excesses and disliked tyranny carried out in the name of ideology and nation. His feelings were actually shared by hundreds of people from the SS, armed forces and civilians alike: they believed Hitler had succumbed to madness and was destroying the German army, sending hundreds of thousands of soldiers to their deaths, and slaughtering entire peoples in the process.

    He was aware that he would need to commit an act of treason, yet he considered it morally imperative to stand up against not only foreign, but also domestic tyranny. Was treason in this case justified? Well that depends to what degree one accepts state authority as absolute and particularly infallible. Even with folkish ideologies such as NS, there is still room for abuse of authority and unfortunately this is what happened during and characterized much of late NS. This is how this period of NS was characterized by former members of the German resistance who survived the war:

    "The government – or rather, the party – controlled everything: the news media, arms, police, the armed forces, the judiciary system, communications, travel, all levels of education from kindergarten to universities, all cultural and religious institutions. Political indoctrination started at a very early age, and continued by means of the Hitler Youth with the ultimate goal of complete mind control. Children were exhorted in school to denounce even their own parents for derogatory remarks about Hitler or Nazi ideology."
    -- Wittenstein, George J., M.D., "Memories of the White Rose" (Part 1, Introduction and Background), 1979

    One could draw a parallel between the abuses of the NS state and the excesses of other regimes and particularly even today's abuses of power, all carried out of course in the "best interest" of the nation. In fact, take specific, time period-related terms such as "Hitler (Youth)" and "Nazi ideology" out of the quotation and it could as well be mistaken for a description of the current political climate in many countries. Politically incorrect books were confiscated and burned as they are today, state media as well as privately-owned publications were forced to censor critics under "hate speech" pretenses, as they are today. Dissidents had their private lives monitored. Had NS known modern techniques such as wiretapping or keylogging, it would have probably been carried out at even wider levels and abused to snoop on honorable citizens at the slightest suspicion. House searches, criminal prosecutions and convictions due to undesirable opinions, newspapers and books were at the order of the day back then as they are today if one has the misfortune of having their names on "politically suspicious" lists. Non-violently active and non-hostile dissidents have been thrown under both systems into psychiatric hospitals over something as innocent as distributing pamphlets, have been issued preventive firearm bans, not to mention all the politically motivated incarcerations.

    The German Resistance saw such acts as abuses of power under NS and saw it fit to react to them. Stauffenberg's actions stemmed from a patriotic sense of duty to his country and people, he reacted to what he perceived to be a domestic threat to his country. His motivations and principles were actually quite similar to those that prompted the actions of the 1848 German revolutionaries, and to a certain degree even those of the American revolutionaries. Such principles have even made it into the constitutions of progressive/enlightened states, e.g. the 1st & 2nd Amendment originated as deterrents for abuse of power and a means for the people to protect themselves from potential tyrants. Surely Stauffenberg was more of a monarchist than libertarian due to his class and upbringing, his ideas and motives however were not that different from e.g. those of the students of the White Rose, who supported a non-violent, intellectual type of resistance based on freedom of information and association, and who were also tried for treason. Stauffenberg had similar goals to those cited in their pamphlets: to spare his people the bloody and humiliating fate of unconditional surrender, which was to follow as a result of Germany losing the war. He saw the fact that Germany would lose inevitable, and desired to avoid precisely what happened after Hitler committed suicide - a mass rape and forced exodus of the German people. Of course Stauffenberg failed in his attempt and his method was influenced by his reluctance and the reluctance of his collaborators to get themselves killed in the process. But the plan wasn't simply to kill Hitler, for in that sense he or anyone in that room or who generally had personal access to Hitler could have just taken out their gun and shot him from a close range, and Hitler would have most certainly died. The plan was rather to declare martial law with the pretext of putting down an alleged SS coup, and to install a government that would negotiate an end to the war with the Allies.

    His secret oath embodies his principles and ideology:

    "We want a new order which makes all Germans responsible for the state and guarantees them law and justice; but we despise the lie that all are equal and we submit to rank ordained by nature. We want a people with roots in their native land, close to the powers of nature, finding happiness and contentment in the given environment, and overcoming, in freedom and pride, the base instincts of envy and jealousy. We want leaders who are in harmony with the divine powers and set an example to others by their noble spirit, discipline and sacrifice."

    His last words, "Long live our sacred Germany!", expressed his love and loyalty towards Germany as a nation and spiritual concept.

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