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Thread: Primordialism and the ‘Pleistocene San’ of Southern Africa

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    Senior Member Catterick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    This goes back to discussion of race itself. Do you want to discuss race? Bushmen, both male and female have a very odd and distinctive sexual anatomy and odd and unusual secondary sexual characteristics. In the very earliest European Upper Paleolithic art, women were carved in mammoth ivory which displayed two of these characteristics, or so some people argue. It is argued based on steatopygia and perhaps one or two other characteristic that the UP sapiens component was of these full sized Bushmen types. Bushmen, Negroes and sometimes Europeans can be steatopygious. East Asians, American Indians, and Australoids never display this trait. So, if we are thinking about the genesis of Europeans and the present day survival of UP types, Guenther's Dalo-Nordics, then this topic is right on point.
    The portable art merely shows exaggerated maternal features. Why would people have preserved steatopygia in Europe when most Africans and non-Africans don't? It can't have been under natural selection in Europe.

    Not even Bantu regularly present steatopygia, its presence is sporadic and never fully developed as in the Sanids. Once the steatopygia gene entered the Bantu it came under negative selection - and Bantu country is relatively arid. True steatopygia seems a local adaptation, and one that is strongly selected against (feelings of revulsion) where it isn't adaptive.

    That said: in Hatshepsut's time the Queen of Punt was depicted as steatopygic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    The portable art merely shows exaggerated maternal features. Why would people have preserved steatopygia in Europe when most Africans and non-Africans don't? It can't have been under natural selection in Europe.

    Not even Bantu regularly present steatopygia, its presence is sporadic and never fully developed as in the Sanids. Once the steatopygia gene entered the Bantu it came under negative selection - and Bantu country is relatively arid. True steatopygia seems a local adaptation, and one that is strongly selected against (feelings of revulsion) where it isn't adaptive.

    That said: in Hatshepsut's time the Queen of Punt was depicted as steatopygic.
    Maybe it is in the eye of the beholder but I see plenty of steatopygia every time I go to WalMart. The mammoth figurines also had spiral hair or so it was or could be interpreted and it is said even the Bushman "lips" of the female genitals.

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    Senior Member Catterick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    Maybe it is in the eye of the beholder but I see plenty of steatopygia every time I go to WalMart. The mammoth figurines also had spiral hair or so it was or could be interpreted and it is said even the Bushman "lips" of the female genitals.
    No the artist was just depicting a hairstyle. People tried to see African elements in Europe back then because of Grimaldi. Nowadays an African Grimaldi Man has fallen out of favour. Its doubtful modern African types existed back then and Paleoafrican Pygmies do not have steatopygia notice. The idea of Capoid traits in Europeans was reinvigorated by claims - based on haploid genetics only - that the origin of modern Homo sapiens people was in southern Africa (or maybe east Africa). Now knowledge of the Paleoafrican "race" turns that on its head.

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