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Thread: Rethinking the History of the Aryan Paradigm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    Are you stil talking about Mal'ta?
    This one:

    https://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=151921

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    That's not the Mal'ta skull fragment, but a Protoeuropoid Yamnaya burial. Its difficult to separate a robust Mediterranean from what Larry Angel termed Nordic-Iranian crania. Indeed the Yamnaya skull, looks quite Natufian. But we discussed that. Mal'ta and Afontova Gora had a Ladogan upper facial contour that Coon and Alekseev took for Mongoloid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    That's not the Mal'ta skull fragment, but a Protoeuropoid Yamnaya burial. Its difficult to separate a robust Mediterranean from what Larry Angel termed Nordic-Iranian crania. Indeed the Yamnaya skull, looks quite Natufian. But we discussed that. Mal'ta and Afontova Gora had a Ladogan upper facial contour that Coon and Alekseev took for Mongoloid.

    Well, I am definitely not going for Natufian. They look like gracile Cromagnons on their way to becoming small Meds. to me. Totally unlike this skull. Your Larry Angel Nordic-Iranian is better but mostly because of the facial length and overall shape. This skull is much larger. Maybe it should be called a Upper Paleolithic Nordic (with little relationship to other European UPs).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    Well, I am definitely not going for Natufian. They look like gracile Cromagnons on their way to becoming small Meds. to me. Totally unlike this skull. Your Larry Angel Nordic-Iranian is better but mostly because of the facial length and overall shape. This skull is much larger. Maybe it should be called a Upper Paleolithic Nordic (with little relationship to other European UPs).
    Well Angel's Nordic-Iranian he admitted differed from the Protomeds only in details. Coon described Hotu Gorge as "Afghanian" to reflect its coarseness compared to later Irano-Afghans, but Angel lumped HG with later Iranians to stress local continuity till the present. HG would actually be quite an outlier if it dates to the Iranian Neolithic so I would place its origins north of the Caucasus, still.

    Coon's timeline was way off because of the misdating of sites such as Combe Capelle and Galley Hill, but I agree with his notion of a "basic Mediterranean stock" of lepto-dolichocephals apart from the Western UP survivors in Europe and Maghreb. In other words: the Yamnaya Proteuropoids and Hotu Gorge Afghanians might be "Upper Paleolithic" (robust, coarse) Nordic ancestors, but were not yet diverged strongly enough from robust Protomeds.

    Gracility and short stature in xeric populations can be the result of environmental stress. In a more favourable environment Natufians might have been taller, stronger.

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    The skull, race and culture I am talking about have been discussed here before and there is quite a bit of information about this culture which extended quite far north in the early Bronze Age.

    https://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=147592

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