Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14

Thread: Genomic Analysis of Andamanese Provides Insights into Ancient Human Migration into Asia and Adaptation

  1. #1
    Senior Member Catterick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Last Online
    Thursday, September 7th, 2017 @ 12:29 AM
    Ethnicity
    Mixed Germanic and Celtic
    Ancestry
    British Isles & Scandinavia
    Subrace
    Borreby x Nordic
    Country
    Other Other
    Location
    Aqua
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Gondolier
    Posts
    2,200
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    20
    Thanked in
    20 Posts

    Genomic Analysis of Andamanese Provides Insights into Ancient Human Migration into Asia and Adaptation

    Genes from Homo narmadensis(?) in living S Asians. Add this to tropical Denisovans, neanderthals and Hammer's "mangani".



    To shed light on the peopling of South Asia and the origins of the morphological adaptations found there, we analyzed whole-genome sequences from 10 Andamanese individuals and compared them with sequences for 60 individuals from mainland Indian populations with different ethnic histories and with publicly available data from other populations. We show that all Asian and Pacific populations share a single origin and expansion out of Africa, contradicting an earlier proposal of two independent waves of migration. We also show that populations from South and Southeast Asia harbor a small proportion of ancestry from an unknown extinct hominin, and this ancestry is absent from Europeans and East Asians. The footprints of adaptive selection in the genomes of the Andamanese show that the characteristic distinctive phenotypes of this population (including very short stature) do not reflect an ancient African origin but instead result from strong natural selection on genes related to human body size.
    http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/vao...l/ng.3621.html

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Last Online
    Friday, October 7th, 2016 @ 02:13 AM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Country
    Other Other
    State
    Cape Province Cape Province
    Gender
    Family
    Youth
    Religion
    none
    Posts
    972
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    I thought we had a thread on this?

    What bothers me is the insistence on only one OoA migration, yet incorporating Neanderthal, Denisovan and these new people. So it would have to be a movement out of Africa to the Arabian peninsula to pick up Neanderthal genes and then east somewhere to pick up Denisovan genes and then south where they evidently found these new genes from a population already in place there.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Catterick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Last Online
    Thursday, September 7th, 2017 @ 12:29 AM
    Ethnicity
    Mixed Germanic and Celtic
    Ancestry
    British Isles & Scandinavia
    Subrace
    Borreby x Nordic
    Country
    Other Other
    Location
    Aqua
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Gondolier
    Posts
    2,200
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    20
    Thanked in
    20 Posts
    I think out of anywhere theories are misleading. Gene flow happened over wide swathes of land not limited geographical regions.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Last Online
    Friday, October 7th, 2016 @ 02:13 AM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Country
    Other Other
    State
    Cape Province Cape Province
    Gender
    Family
    Youth
    Religion
    none
    Posts
    972
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    As far as I know there are only two human movement theories. The Joseph Birdsell type where 50 people enter a continent, breed until it becomes 75, then 25 move several miles away and repeat. He showed all of Australia could be colonized in 2000 years this way. Then there is the coastal migration theory which I ascribe to Africans (sapiens) as well as New World colonists. Maybe it is time to rethink.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Catterick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Last Online
    Thursday, September 7th, 2017 @ 12:29 AM
    Ethnicity
    Mixed Germanic and Celtic
    Ancestry
    British Isles & Scandinavia
    Subrace
    Borreby x Nordic
    Country
    Other Other
    Location
    Aqua
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Gondolier
    Posts
    2,200
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    20
    Thanked in
    20 Posts
    Recently someone published that AMH were blocked from India by an established archaic hominid. Presumably this was Narmada man. If you look at the tree it hints Narmada man is a different branch from neanderthals and Denisovans. Denisovans east of the Ganges Delta and Narmada people west of it? How can we know its relationships without a whole genome?

    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ley_as_Witness

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...60404/abstract

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Last Online
    Friday, October 7th, 2016 @ 02:13 AM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Country
    Other Other
    State
    Cape Province Cape Province
    Gender
    Family
    Youth
    Religion
    none
    Posts
    972
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    This first reference was copied and because it kept malfunctioning, at least on my computer.






    1st Anek R Sankhyan

    20.17 · Anthropological Survey of India




    Abstract

    The emergence of anatomically modern Homo sapiens in South Asia is hotly debated due to a great gap in fossil record. A solitary partial cranium from Hathnora dated around 250 Kya is debated and conveniently interpreted as “evolved” Homo erectus or “archaic” Homo sapiens or Homo heidelbergensis or even Homo indet. Cranial fossils of Pre-Toba or post- Toba anatomically modern Homo sapiens are unknown barring the very late 30 Kya modern human remains from Sri Lanka. The present paper reviews the scenario of human evolution in South Asia with special reference to the cranial and recent postcranial fossil findings by the author in association with the archaeological evidences from Central Narmada valley. It is concluded that the Narmada fossils and archaeological findings support the presence of three hominins- two „archaic‟ and one „early modern‟. The Mode 2 Acheulian hominin represented by the calvarium and the femur was a „large-bodied‟ species akin to Homo heidelbergensis. It appeared first in the Central Narmada valley and was followed by a „small-bodied‟ Mode 3 archaic type represented by two clavicles and the 9th rib, provisionally named here as Homo narmadensis. It likely continued and attained anatomical and behavioural modernity in South Asia as attested by the humerus and bone artifacts, and diversified to various short-bodied indigenous populations of South Asia supports the genomic evidences. KEYWORDS: Homo erectus, Homo heidelbergensis, Homo sapiens, Homo narmadensis, cranial and postcranial hominin fossils, bone artifacts

    The other article says something like the Narmada fossil is really sapiens although part erectus. If it is part erectus, then there is an erectus here. The second abstract (above) admits two kinds or archaic, a heidelbergensis type and a smaller type of archaic represented by two clavicles and a rib bone (underwhelming evidence for a species designation by any standards). The second type, they say, yielded small bodied people of South Asia today. Maybe this represents the new DNA traces which have been found.

    If there is a new erectus in India which left living descendants, the Denisovans which left living descendants, the Neanderthals which left living descendants, then maybe also we have an unknown, undetected as of yet archaic in East Asia. Maybe it is an erectus type from Sinanthropus or maybe and encephalized version, heidelbergensis, or Red Deer.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Catterick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Last Online
    Thursday, September 7th, 2017 @ 12:29 AM
    Ethnicity
    Mixed Germanic and Celtic
    Ancestry
    British Isles & Scandinavia
    Subrace
    Borreby x Nordic
    Country
    Other Other
    Location
    Aqua
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Gondolier
    Posts
    2,200
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    20
    Thanked in
    20 Posts
    Greg Cochran says the Pygmies diverged something like 300,000 BP. This would mean they branched off back in Acheulian times! The mangani he talks about can't be other than the female Homo rhodesiensis skull, the one that might be early Holocene(!) - if there was a relict Kabwe hominin in the forests, pygmies could hardly have lived there at the same time (ecological rule).

    Or Iwo Eluru actually is a proto-pygmy and they got "modernised" by admixture from mainline Homo sapiens? How quick could the skull acquire an anatomically modern aspect? Remember the new clock puts Pygmy divergence back in the Acheulian timeframe. The oldest dates suggested for Kabwe (Rhodesian Man) match the pygmy split.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Last Online
    Friday, October 7th, 2016 @ 02:13 AM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Country
    Other Other
    State
    Cape Province Cape Province
    Gender
    Family
    Youth
    Religion
    none
    Posts
    972
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    This has to do with the actual origin of AMH. If, say 800,000 years ago, erectus left Africa, leaving ergaster behind, it (erectus) could have later changed into heidelbergensis which split to the Denisovans, Neanderthals, the new islanders and maybe encephalized erectus which is more like the original heidelbergensis. Meanwhile Ergaster undergoes one mutation, bending the cranium. Then, a back migration of heidelbergensis occurs in Africa which is Kawbe and his line. These two exist and finally merge. The ergaster which has mutated once is sapiens. The heidelbergensis is all the archaic material found in Africa. The Bushman types are the ergaster-sapiens. The pigmies have added a bit of archaic heidelbergensis. From time to time the East African highlands are invaded by Caucasians from the north which is evidenced by Leakey's work in Kenya and the people there today.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Catterick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Last Online
    Thursday, September 7th, 2017 @ 12:29 AM
    Ethnicity
    Mixed Germanic and Celtic
    Ancestry
    British Isles & Scandinavia
    Subrace
    Borreby x Nordic
    Country
    Other Other
    Location
    Aqua
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Gondolier
    Posts
    2,200
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    20
    Thanked in
    20 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    This has to do with the actual origin of AMH. If, say 800,000 years ago, erectus left Africa, leaving ergaster behind, it (erectus) could have later changed into heidelbergensis which split to the Denisovans, Neanderthals, the new islanders and maybe encephalized erectus which is more like the original heidelbergensis. Meanwhile Ergaster undergoes one mutation, bending the cranium. Then, a back migration of heidelbergensis occurs in Africa which is Kawbe and his line. These two exist and finally merge. The ergaster which has mutated once is sapiens. The heidelbergensis is all the archaic material found in Africa. The Bushman types are the ergaster-sapiens. The pigmies have added a bit of archaic heidelbergensis. From time to time the East African highlands are invaded by Caucasians from the north which is evidenced by Leakey's work in Kenya and the people there today.
    I don't know: Atapuerca seems to be on the line towards Homo heidelbergensis, neanderthals and Denisovans. Modern humans seem to share specific similarities with Asian erectus and even the Flores hobbits. I am troubled that Kabwe seems an out-of-place heidelbergensis. If the mangani only diverged 300 kya then they were obviously stem-sapiens. The European-Siberian MP hominins had split away before then. Where did Asian Homo erectus fit and were the Javans' and Floresians' advanced traits mere convergences?

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Last Online
    Friday, October 7th, 2016 @ 02:13 AM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Country
    Other Other
    State
    Cape Province Cape Province
    Gender
    Family
    Youth
    Religion
    none
    Posts
    972
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    I don't know: Atapuerca seems to be on the line towards Homo heidelbergensis, neanderthals and Denisovans. Modern humans seem to share specific similarities with Asian erectus and even the Flores hobbits. I am troubled that Kabwe seems an out-of-place heidelbergensis. If the mangani only diverged 300 kya then they were obviously stem-sapiens. The European-Siberian MP hominins had split away before then. Where did Asian Homo erectus fit and were the Javans' and Floresians' advanced traits mere convergences?
    OK, let's look at these things one at a time. Atapuerca may represent people before the absolute split between the Denisovans and Neanderthals, more toward the erectus-heidelbergensis separation (however that will be defined). We know these people had mtDNA which looked more Denisovans but nuclear DNA which looked more Neanderthal so there is a relationship here.

    Moderns sharing erectus and hobbit characters. East Asians share dental anomalies with Sinanthropus, a well established fact. This is great evidence for some genetic continuity. Surely you would not rule out a later, probably encephalized erectus in the East Asian mix? I don't know of any good evidence for the hobbit line in moderns but it is certainly possible.

    Kabwe is not the only one. It is just the most famous and complete one. Coon calls these skulls The Cape Flats Line. There were these large, bony headed people in Africa which probably where absorbed and changed by that skull bending mutation Bushmen and sapiens is known for. Bushman-type stone industry and artifacts were found in association with Kabwe so there was some ancient relationship between these people and sapiens.

    Pygmies partially descended from dwarfed heidelbergensis might yield a date of divergence of 300,000 years. It might depend on whether the date is a result of one gene difference, backdated, or many, yielding an average.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Genomic Insights into the Peopling of the Southwest Pacific
    By Catterick in forum Anthropogeny & Ethnogenesis
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Tuesday, October 4th, 2016, 08:44 PM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: Friday, August 10th, 2007, 04:49 PM
  3. Replies: 4
    Last Post: Monday, December 20th, 2004, 12:39 AM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: Monday, May 31st, 2004, 02:45 PM
  5. Y-Chromosomal Insights into Central Asia
    By Euclides in forum Y-Chromosome (Y-DNA) Haplogroups
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Sunday, April 18th, 2004, 08:58 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •