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Thread: Rudolf Steiner on the French Language

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahnenerbe View Post

    The idea of using a natural language for computer programming is to make it easier for people to talk to computers in their native tongue and spare them the pain of learning a computer friendly language like assembly, C, C++, Java, LISP etc.


    This would end up giving you a fair template or a partially complete code at best. You'd still need to go through it and make changes and add certain things manually. There's just too many ways to do something depending on host of circumstances.
    It is an interesting thing to research into, but not too practical... unless you're building something extremely simple.
    So it will never spare you of learning regular languages.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahnenerbe View Post
    a conference that happened just last year on this topic.
    If this is really so -- which I am doubtful of -- then why you did not start right away with a recommendation of Sanskrit? Why you first must defile French (the language of calculus, which is "simply a known thing") and then change topic and praise the idiom of some obscure, utterly irrelevant turnip growers?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahnenerbe View Post
    It is simply a known thing. All linguists are unanimous and speak of Sanskrit with awe.
    No, that is not true. Chinese linguist certainly do not. I also do not.

    And I think Kim's engineers who make the rockets and atom warheads for him also don't.

    The Indo-Aryans, with all their Sanskrit & stuff, should be more technologically advanced than they are. And not since yesterday, but since already 3000 years. But in fact, they stagnated since then.

    Recently I had a longer virtual conversation with a Bangladeshi of the Kshatriya caste. At the beginning, the talk was refreshing and somewhat pleasant, but the longer the more it became boring, finally annoying, until it really disgusted me.

    He said he spoke Bengalese, Hindi, and Sankskrit equally well. I asked him which he preferred. He said, Bengalese was the most beautiful one. He regretted that the British left India, and wished them back. Beside this, he was a fervent admirer of Stalin, and of the Soviet Union under him.

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  4. #13
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    I am not trying to make a point or to push an agenda. It's not about ego and trying to "prove" something, or to correlate everything to race.

    It happens all the time that some peoples may have conserved superior languages or cultural traits, while having degenerated on the whole - which is what has happened in India, among others.

    I don't "defile French", Rudolf Steiner does. And it seems he's right on many points. So it's interesting to consider what he says. Steiner had a highly developed intuition on a lot of things.

    About Sanskrit - It is the most adapted language for technology, it doesn't mean the people speaking it should necessarily be advanced technologically! For example if you give advanced machine-tools to Blacks, it doesn't mean they are going to use them properly.

    Besides, there is more to life than just technology - Sanskrit is the top for poetry, literature, etc. The video linked above quickly mentions how knowing Sanskrit creates better neural pathways and makes learning of other disciplines easier.

    About the Koreans - By the way, the Hangul alphabet is said to be the most efficient and perfected - in terms of ALPHABET. That does not mean their language itself is superior, or that I'm trying to "prove" the Korean race is superior, or anything.

    Hangul itself is a superior script and a remarkable achievement. Other people could choose to write their own languages in Hangul as well... it's just a script. It's a tool, a linguistic technology.

    Also, a given nation could keep writing in that superior script for centuries, while the rest of their society is lagging behind in other areas. Those things are not necessarily correlated.

    So, in theory you could very well have White people choosing to speak Sanskrit, write it in Hangul - and make it the official language in their own ethnostate, or something. Those are just linguistic choices. And then you'll have, over time, the evolution of a new people, shaped by both their genetics and language. Anything is possible.

    That's what is retarded with the racist mentality - people can't seem to admit any kind of positive traits in anyone else than "their" race without feeling butthurt. It's like it's all about compensating for a huge lack of self-esteem.

    It's like we have to spend the whole time trying to prove that "Vikings" were the apex of human evolution, and put everything else down, or something... That's why it's never going anywhere and everyone else is laughing at this milieu - or not even laughing, that milieu is simply irrelevant in real life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahnenerbe View Post
    So, in theory you could very well have White people choosing to speak Sanskrit, write it in Hangul - and make it the official language in their own ethnostate, or something. Those are just linguistic choices. And then you'll have, over time, the evolution of a new people, shaped by both their genetics and language. Anything is possible.
    A script is a different matter because it’s indeed “merely” a tool. Although I personally don’t see what’s so superior about Hangul, even after reading the article. It seems intuitive, which was certainly an advantage in the past, but with modern schooling it likely wouldn’t outweigh any adverse effects you inevitably face, when you have to change your whole system of writing.

    But language is not a choice for a people, it’s an organically grown, integral, part of what they are and the mode with which you express concepts. We don’t choose it based on objective superiority or anything like that, it’s chosen for us by history.
    It’s far from being the only criteria, nor the most important, but you can’t have Germans without German, it's as simple as that.
    "Wenn die letzten und höchsten Güter von Volk und Vaterland auf dem Spiele stehen, versagen die juristischen Formen und Formeln, die auf Erden gemacht sind; wer zum letzten Kampf fürs Vaterland geht, holt sein Recht vom Himmel." - Ernst Moritz Arndt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahnenerbe View Post
    That's what is retarded with the racist mentality - people can't seem to admit any kind of positive traits in anyone else than "their" race without feeling butthurt. It's like it's all about compensating for a huge lack of self-esteem.
    People would appreciate foreign things much more for what they are, if other people (including the "racist" ones) wouldnt constantly try to replace the "inferior" aspects of our culture with the "superior" foreign ones.

    The real problem lies in that "valuation" stuff. Hitler did it with imposing Roman grandeur and megalomania on Germany, where this is simply just unnatural to the German mind, which appreciates a wooden cottage with homegrown Gemütlichkeit much more than the "higher faster further" of the great "modern" ill that is this blind and blinding "Fortschrittsglaube" (belief in progress), no matter what.


    Yesterday we still stood before the abyss - today we're one step further (down)

    There are things that are just ingrained in the Volk, one of it is language, another culture (which is the product of a Volk, not some random thing you pick up from a supermarket shelf), and the spiritual expression. We are still a polytheist people, despite christianity wishing it was monotheist. It's so deeply ingrained into our souls that we imposed it onto the allegedly "superior" religion of the desert. Some things can only be changed through heavy racial mixing or racial replacement (like it was the case in the late Roman empire, it's not the Romans that became christian, christianity came with a different people). And it is entirely irrelevant whether something is "superior" or "inferior", what matters is whether it's ours or not. And the latter includes a decided "for better or worse". It's really irrelevant.

    It's this valuation all the time and everywhere, on appropiate and inappropiate occasions, with implicit or explicit implications to adopt foreign stuff, that annoys me personally the most of all. Volk is not a patchwork.


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    Have to say, after listening some stuff, that Lithuanian doesnt sound that different from any other Slavic language.
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Hitler did it with imposing Roman grandeur and megalomania on Germany, where this is simply just unnatural to the German mind,
    Because in his opinion, the Germans had only risen to greatness and world historic relevance, because they came in contact with the Roman Empire.

    Ever since that happened, all the more influential German leaders, and not just Hitler, had been deeply impressed by that Roman Empire!

    Odwakar, Theodariks, Chlodowech, Charlemagen ALL OF THEM were so proud and so happy, if some Emperor or some pope did "recognize" them, and did respect them. ALL OF THEM held titles, honorary, and real-power titles, bestowd to them by some Roman authority, they were "Consul", "Magister Militium", "Imperator" and so on and so forth.

    Hitler said: only those Germans who went south rose. Those who remained in the north, were still imbecile twits 2000 years later. And one cannot deny that there is some truth in that.

    The question is, whether all the individuals of one folk can be elevated up to the same level. And we National Socialists answer: probably not -- yet we will try our best!
    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    which appreciates a wooden cottage with homegrown Gemütlichkeit
    ... and that is why Hitler built for himself a mountain house, like any wealthy German Bergbauer does. All of his house's interior was made of German wood, crafted by German craftsmen, in good old German craftsmanship.
    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    much more than the "higher faster further" of the great "modern"
    ... yet at the same time, Hitler was convinced, that Germans should drive cars, and no longer ride horses. Because they lived in the 20th century. And they, the Germans had invented the 5 different types of gas engines. The gas engines, and the cars were made by German workers, who all are Facharbeiter. "Facharbeiter" is a word that does not exist in any other laguage, also not in 'Sanskrit", and is untranslatable.

    The word did also not exist in old German, in the German of 2000, and not even 200 years ago. BUT IT DOES EXIST NOW. And we didn't need anybody to tell us how to make up such a word.

    This shows and proves how much we have grown spiritually in the past 2000 years!
    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    ill that is this blind and blinding "Fortschrittsglaube" (belief in progress), no matter what.
    Indiscriminate, unconditional "blind" belief in progress is certainly wrong. But the exact opposite of one wrong is not one right, but is another wrong. You will die in 50 degree heat, but you will also die in 50 degree cold.

    The opposite of "blind" belief in progress, is "blind" denial of progress.

    Whereas there is in fact progress. 17 years ago there was no internet. Now we have the internet, and everybody who denies that this is a huge progress is just... not fully up to it.

    One hundred and ten years ago, there were no Diesel engines, and today there are Diesel engines, and THIS IS PROGRESS, full stop. And the negroes, and the sand-negroes, and the "Indo-Aryans" with their "Sanskrit they all STILL DO NOT have it. And I do not compare myself with them.

    We do not need dumb backwooders who live in the dump backwood. This is how some people would like to see us, because then we would be no danger for them anymore.

    The bolsheviks were certainly not afraid of our "Gemütlichkeit".
    Last edited by Chlodovech; Monday, September 11th, 2017 at 11:38 PM. Reason: Germanic heritage

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahnenerbe View Post
    About Sanskrit - It is the most adapted language for technology, ...
    You are mixing things up.
    Sanskrit is praised for it's lack of semantic deviation in relation to it's syntax. This simply makes it easier to extract meaning with just text. Even better in this regard are programming languages. In how far it is a bad thing to have to learn these languages, you didn't make this argument yet.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Senior Member Godwinson's Avatar
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    Leaving aside all that stuff about Sanskrit and Lithuanian that have sidetracked a potentially interesting thread, the fact is that Rudolf Steiner made his comments almost a century ago and the 'dead' French language is still very much alive.

    He obviously didn't like the French and he may well have been right about their decadent culture but to suggest a cause-and-effect relationship between behaviour and language is nonsense.

    The French language is one of those languages one can learn in Europe at present which, if I may put it like this, drives man’s soul to the very surface of his being.

    It would be the one in which, to put it paradoxically, it is easiest to tell lies honestly. It lends itself most easily to telling lies candidly and honestly, because it is no longer connected with man’s inner nature. It is spoken entirely on the human being’s surface.

    This determines the soul attitude of both the French language and the French character. The soul bearing is such that the French language takes command of the soul. Whilst with a German person the inner configuration of the language puts the soul under the domination of the will element, the moment you speak French it has a numbing effect and takes over command.

    It is a language that violates the soul and therefore makes it hollow, and thus under the influence of the language, French culture hollows one out. Anyone who has a feeling for these things can always sense that in fact no soul is forthcoming in the French character, only a culture which has grown formal and rigid.

    The difference is this, that in French you are dependent on the language taking command over you. In French you have not got that endless freedom that you have in German, and which we ought to make use of, the freedom to put the subject in any position we like, all according to its inner significance.
    It ill behoves me to use lowbrow language in response to such a learned piece, but it's a long time since I last read such a load of bollocks!

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    I must, however, give Herr Steiner full credit for this observation ...

    That is a terrible thing the French people are doing to other people, the frightful cultural brutality of transplanting Black people to Europe. It affects France itself worst of all. This has an incredibly strong effect on the blood, the race. This will substantially add to French decadence. The French nation will be weakened as a race”.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Godwinson View Post
    It ill behoves me to use lowbrow language in response to such a learned piece, but it's a long time since I last read such a load of bollocks!
    Early 20th century. The notion of German (inluding Austrian) and French being 'hereditary enemies' was still alive and this across all layers of society.

    Anyway, I myself never liked learning French and the language never clicked with me (but this is also because of French being a mandatory course here in the Flemish Region and Francophiles often being obnoxiously disparaging toward the Dutch culture and too much focus on form).
    Grammatically I understand it fairly well and knowledge of its vocabulary is vast enough, but it's still very unpractical to me.I also think that mentality and language probably are somewhat correlated as well. The French language is a bit more chaotic and very idiomatic compared to Germanic languages and the more idiomatic the language the more needs to be learned by rote. Perhaps my brain doesn't recognise Germanic languages as 'just as idiomatic', though.

    I'm still more open to French language and culture than most French-speakers are toward Germanic cultures in the end. Many French-speakers can't even understand a written German or Dutch text on a passive level despite living in Belgium.

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