View Poll Results: Is Political Violence Ever Justified?

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  • Yes, always..and I'll explain why..

    5 19.23%
  • No, never..and I'll explain why..

    3 11.54%
  • Sometimes in the right circumstances..and I'll explain why..

    16 61.54%
  • It is inevitable no matter what..and I'll explain why..

    2 7.69%
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Thread: Is Political Violence Ever Justified? / Is Violence a Legitimate Means of Changing Society?

  1. #11
    Senior Member Pino's Avatar
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    A pen only has power if it is protected by a sword.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pino View Post
    A pen only has power if it is protected by a sword.
    Using a sword without a pen would be injudicious and brainless violence only for the sake of the violence. That´s how politics work in Africa, but I think this shouldn´t be the Germanic way to go.

    "Judge of your natural character by what you do in your dreams" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Is Violence a Legitimate Means of Changing Society?

    Yes!

    You ask any anti-BNP, or any 'anti' of any kind, how they would react to the BNP gaining power in Britain.

    I'll tell you.
    They will say unanimously that the time would therefore be signalled to riot and protest that such a fair and democratic result has been allowed in favour of the BNP, or any other political group with "racist" ideologies.

    "The world is a violent place. Be prepared to fight."
    "The only way to get smarter is to play a smarter opponent."

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  4. #14
    Senior Member Berrocscir's Avatar
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    The trouble with using violence as a political tactic today, at least in the western democracies, is that it is wielded by groups without substantial public support, and is pretty pointless as it cannot hope to destablise the system and usually results in arrest and imprisonment.

    Obviously in different circumstances violence can be used to seriously challenge the status quo, but only by a movement that has reached a critical mass and where social conditions are harsh enough to justify such action.

    Incidently, am I confusing this with something else, but wasn't an ex-RAF member now a ethno-nationalist in Germany? Hey, nothing wrong with changing your mind!

  5. #15
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    When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
    Yes but I also reject 'street violence'. It is rarely appropriate politically.
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  6. #16
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    Cool

    I won't advocate violence.

    However, when democracy does not work then surely revolution will follow...

  7. #17
    Senior Member Anfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrie View Post
    The RAF was anti-German and anti-national to the bones. Well, the government back then was at least a little bit more patriotic than nowadays.

    I agree with you that the FRG is not preserving our culture, ethnicy and identity, but the goals of the RAF were even more hostile towards our ideals! Internationalistic cultural-marxism is not a solution, but a threat.


    I reject street violence because I think it´s useless, inadequate and below our level. Angry mobs (mostly consisting of minorities) use street violence as a mean to change something or to voice their opinions, but we Germanics are more worth, we shouldn´t step down from our moral superiority only to use the means of savages.

    (Street) violence has no big political influence. It´s far more important to win elections and to convince the people, to attain their hearts and minds. Violence disgusts the large majority of a population. My opinion is that a change can only be a longer-range success if the change is built up on a convinced mass instead on a atmosphere of violence, terror and angst.
    (Even if I dislike Hitler and NS: Hitler came to power not by the street rampages of the SA but by democratic elections! Because he has won the hearts of the mass before. The previous SA brute force on the streets was more or less insignificant)


    The REPs refuse violence, and as far as I know they had a better election result in Hessen and Bayern (for example) than the NPD.

    But just to make it clear, I don´t reject violence generally. I just reject street violence.
    Violence by the authority of the state against those who´d fight against us may be a useful last resort in the case of the cases. State violence is more effective and many-sided.

    A exaggerated example: Send ten skinheads in a multicultural hellhole like Berlin-Kreuzberg to get the hostile Turkish-gangs out of the city. The skinhealds will achieve nothing. But send in 10 panzers, backed by the government body, and the outcome will be a more positive one...
    So, to put it in a nutshell: Our political ideals need emphasis. Street violence can´t offer that. We must gain power trough political and dimplomatic means. And if "we" are in power then, violence can be a mean among others, of course. But surely not the primary mean. Only as an ultima ratio from my point of view. Because a political system based on force, oppression and extreme observation has no long half-life period, this shows the history.

    I´m not a pacifist, but I´d support violence only if there´re no other working options anymore.
    Over all agree with this post.

    I agree with=

    "(Street) violence has no big political influence. It´s far more important to win elections and to convince the people, to attain their hearts and minds. Violence disgusts the large majority of a population. My opinion is that a change can only be a longer-range success if the change is built up on a convinced mass instead on a atmosphere of violence, terror and angst."

    But not with This: Please keep in mind that I am not fond of the AH regime)

    "(Even if I dislike Hitler and NS: Hitler came to power not by the street rampages of the SA but by democratic elections! Because he has won the hearts of the mass before. The previous SA brute force on the streets was more or less insignificant)"

    This is not exactly true for multiple reasons. If not for the Kampfers of the Sicherung Abteilung, the Communists or perhaps even the social democrats would have beaten the speakers of the NSDAP to death on the street or the speaker podium. The communists in those days had thousands of their own fighters and the used intimidation and murder. many members of the SA came from the Freikorps and knew nothing other than fighting the Communists and living a military lifestyle. They were more and more orderly than the skinheads. (not a hard thing to be)

    There are huge differences between the Germany of 1923 and the Germany of 2008 . We are safe and not starving and have warm homes. THEY DID NOT. Those days were bleak. By 1934 the SA consisted of 4 million men. without the SA as a Social Organization many of those men would have turned to the communists or become criminals because they had to eat, and who promissed organization, some food, and direction was who a poor ex soldier or unemployed man would follow. Not everyone joined for Volkisch reasons. On a practical level the SA kept a lot of communists under control. But these were very different times and conditions. For example Ernst Rohm coordinated with the Army to get weapons fot the SA. In fact Rohm got his Job because of his Army Connections.also training. After the treaty of Versailles the german Army could be no larger that 100,000 men, so training and Arming SA was a way to get around that. to the Army, it was at least something.

    All in all I agree with Valkyrie's post. The worst threat is this "liberal" public opinion, and in the case of Germany this ridiculous and artificially induced guiltyness psychology implanted in the national conciousness for things the last two generations were not around to even witness. This serves Anti germanics well.

    As to Berlin...
    I lived in Berlin a long time ago, and I guess the Turks were did not really have such powerful gangs as you describe. But a German Woman I knew
    was raped by one of them. He was arrested but as she was poor the Turk's family payed her 35,000 DM to not testify.How does it get to be that She is poor and the rapist's family has enough to pay here off in her own country?
    Last edited by Anfang; Sunday, November 2nd, 2008 at 04:47 PM. Reason: Typos again. grrr.

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    Is violence a legitimate means of changing society?
    Seeing as I am the arbiter of legitimacy, it depends.






  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrie View Post
    The REPs refuse violence, and as far as I know they had a better election result in Hessen and Bayern (for example) than the NPD.
    The REPs are a system party, like the NPD, DVU and all other parties. They won't change anything radically.

    But just to make it clear, I don´t reject violence generally. I just reject street violence.
    Violence by the authority of the state against those who´d fight against us may be a useful last resort in the case of the cases. State violence is more effective and many-sided.

    A exaggerated example: Send ten skinheads in a multicultural hellhole like Berlin-Kreuzberg to get the hostile Turkish-gangs out of the city. The skinhealds will achieve nothing. But send in 10 panzers, backed by the government body, and the outcome will be a more positive one...
    So, to put it in a nutshell: Our political ideals need emphasis. Street violence can´t offer that. We must gain power trough political and dimplomatic means. And if "we" are in power then, violence can be a mean among others, of course. But surely not the primary mean. Only as an ultima ratio from my point of view. Because a political system based on force, oppression and extreme observation has no long half-life period, this shows the history.

    I´m not a pacifist, but I´d support violence only if there´re no other working options anymore.
    If it wasn't for street violence at least here in Berlin more Germans would be doomed. 10 skinheads can't do much in Kreuzberg because the aliens have the power then. But send 10 Turks to Lichtenberg and see what happens.

    The government will never sent in 10 panzers to Kreuzberg because the government is anti-German. The solution? The government should become a pro-German one, a nationalist one, not a traitor one. The REP and other parties won't be able to do much, even if they win some seats, because they'll always have to compromise with the traitor parties.

  10. #20
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    Sadly there are times when violence is the only way to get a point across
    " Duty is the most sublime word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less." -Robert E.Lee

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