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Thread: 'Ultima Thule' or 'Ex Oriente Lux'?

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    'Ultima Thule' or 'Ex Oriente Lux'?

    As a topic I put this thread in the history section, although the discussion I hope to create does not necessarily have to be limited to the realm of history.

    I'm interested what our members think of these two concepts. Different perspectives are welcome. What are the merits and what are the flaws of these concepts? Is any of them historically accurate? Or which serves better the purpose of creating a viable political myth for the future? Which one tells us, as Germanics, who we are? This question can be answered on the level of culture, spirituality, anthropogeny, ideology, etc. Do we even need to make a choice between the north or the east?

    Just some general thoughts:
    Ultima Thule, the unknown north, which was already described by the ancient Greeks. Since it was later identified with Iceland, to Germanics it has an extra special meaning. Furthermore the idea that our origins lie in the north seems to be a general Indo-European concept, which lead to the theory about an arctic (thus northern) home of the ancient Aryans ('The Arctic Home in the Vedas'). Similarly the ancient Greeks also mentioned a semi-mythical people, the Hyperboreans, in a land where the sun only rose once every year. Germanics would face the north when praying to the Gods. The northern star, being the only point of stability in the sky, was the home of the Gods, serving the same kind of function as Yggdrasil, our Axis Mundi. Nowadays the original Thule, before it started to lead a mythical life, has been identified with the Norse island of Smøla (Thread) and as such can probably be ruled out as an original home of Germanics, but as a symbol for the mythical value the north has had, especially for pagans, it can still serve a purpose.

    Ex Oriente Lux or the light from the east tells us a different story. As a symbol it tells us about the great civilizations of the east, such as in Mesopotamia where the first people started to cultivate the land and where the ancient Sumerian civilization developed, where the first scripture was created and of which the oldest astrological knowledge has been documented. There myths still live on in the Bible; the stories of the Old Testament have likely been influenced by (or even have their origins in) the myths of the Sumerians, which was handed on by the Accadians and the Assyrians. The Sumerian language remains an isolated language as far as we know. It's origins are therefor unknown. Some, such as Alexander Jacob, even suggested common origins with the Indo-Europeans. Then there is also this other great eastern civilization, that of the Egyptian pharaos. Alfred Rosenberg regarded this as an originally nordic civilization. Later, the light came from the east by way of the birth of Christ, and the crusades have drawn our attention back to the east for centuries. From a pre-Christian Germanic perspective, the east was important because that is where the sun rises. An important Anglo-Saxon goddess beared the name Ostara and we still celebrate spring under the name of Easter in many countries.

    What would your personal opinion be? And from what perspective do you approach a topic like this? Pagan or Christian? Mythical or archaeological? Is there perhaps insufficient evidence for a northern origin or is the eastern hypothesis only interesting for Semetic peoples? Discuss!

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    Senior Member Catterick's Avatar
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    In Indo-European languages both the north and the east can carry connotations of going upwards. So its not really surprising the south and the west are never given such symbolic importance. Though the Mediterranean is the south from our geographical perspective and Ex Oriente Lux is misnamed, logically.

    Henri Corbin discusses the esoteric significance of the north. A lot of "Nazi" spirituality has Sufi origins. Conveniently Odin was also associated with the north.

    Gornahoor wrote about this before.
    http://www.gornahoor.net/?p=3205

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    This is really esoteric but there is a map which was reproduced by sort of non-traditional German writer O. Bergmann in Deutsche Flugscheiben und Uboote ueberwachen die Weltmeere which alleges to show the site of Mitternactberg (Midnight Mountain). This midnight mountain sort of the center of the esoteric world for these guys and would correspond to both Ultimate Thule and Ex Oriente Lux. This map's center is Egypt and has the trappings of an ancient, Bronze Age map. Directly north of Egypt, at the polar ocean of what is now Russia is this midnight mountain. An interesting detail is the heavens are supported at this mountain by a palm tree which is called Haunebu. This tree is reproduced in the stairway within Neuschwanstein Castle. This latter detail seems to indicate a more widespread acceptance or acknowledgment of this esoteric ideas than history would have us believe. Also, the map itself, if at all genuine, might indicate a very widespread general religious understanding throughout the Bronze Age world.

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    You can see this map online if you do a bit of work. Go to the link below.



    https://archive.org/details/Bergmann...-und-U-Boote-2

    There are two books, marked I and II in Roman numerals. The map is in book I. Book I is pictured at the top of the page of this link. Click on the picture of the book itself and it will open, showing page after page as you click. Go to page 35 and you will see this map.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    In Indo-European languages both the north and the east can carry connotations of going upwards. So its not really surprising the south and the west are never given such symbolic importance. Though the Mediterranean is the south from our geographical perspective and Ex Oriente Lux is misnamed, logically.

    Henri Corbin discusses the esoteric significance of the north. A lot of "Nazi" spirituality has Sufi origins. Conveniently Odin was also associated with the north.

    Gornahoor wrote about this before.
    http://www.gornahoor.net/?p=3205
    In the Bronze Age there is "Swastika City", Arkaim, and associated culture which is in the Urals but must have seemed polar to cultures to the south.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkaim

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    Henri Corbin discusses the esoteric significance of the north.
    Do you know a specific source where I can look this up? Corbin is quite interesting, although I'm not that familiar with him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernhard View Post
    Do you know a specific source where I can look this up? Corbin is quite interesting, although I'm not that familiar with him.
    Well you might start here.

    http://www.amiscorbin.com/
    http://www.henrycorbinproject.blogspot.com/

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