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Thread: Worst Mistake in Modern German History?

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    Worst Mistake in Modern German History?

    This question is simple: what was the worst mistake in modern German history? I'm going to list some possible answers that come to mind:



    1. 1890. Wilhelm II rescinds the Cabinet Order of 1851, which required Prussian cabinet ministers to report to the Chancellor alone. This forced Otto von Bismarck to resign from the Chancellorship.
    2. 1914. Archduke Ferdinand of the Austro-Hungarian Empire decides to ride in an open car through Sarajevo. He is assassinated, and World War I begins soon after.
    3. 1914. Germany remains steadfast in alliance with Austro-Hungary even as Austro-Hungary threatens to crush Serbia, a country historically protected by Russia.
    4. 1914. Germany throws its best military resources primarily against France, attempting to defeat France before Russia. Germany and Austro-Hungary will fight a primarily defensive war against Russia. The western front becomes a bloody stalemate. By 1917, the Russian monarchy is deposed in a revolution brought on by food riots. Russia exits the war. Meanwhile France continues to fight on without collapsing.
    5. 1914. Germany holds back from unrestricted submarine warfare despite the British naval blockade in an attempt to keep the USA from entering the war. Out of desperation, Germany begins unrestricted submarine warfare in 1917, and soon after the USA enters the war.
    6. 1914. Germany does not use its naval resources to blockade Russia, which is propped up for a few years, causing Germany to fight a two-front war.
    7. 1915-1916. Seeing that the war was becoming a long, bloody fight over little territory, Germany failed to offer a truce, armistice, or peace treaty from its then position of strength. Instead, Germany kept on fighting as the Central Powers, with their smaller populations and fewer resources as compared to the Allied Powers, withered and eventually lost the war of attrition.
    8. 1916-1917. Attempting to make an alliance with Mexico against the USA before the USA entered the war. The plan helped convince the American people to enter World War I, abandoning the traditional neutral American foreign policy.
    9. 1918-1919. Not doing enough to make the Treaty of Versailles less harsh against Germany.
    10. 1923-1924. Failure to execute, imprison for life, or deport Adolf Hitler. After the Bier Hall Putsch, Germany failed to prosecute Adolf Hitler effectively, resulting in light punishment when he had been charged with high treason. Hitler served only a little time, and leveraged his good fortune from the trial into more publicity for himself and his ideas.
    11. 1933. President Hindenburg appoints Adolf Hitler chancellor, despite Hitler not having won the election.
    12. 1933 - 1945. Policies of Adolf Hitler generally.
    13. 1933 - 1945. Devoting time and resources to "the Jewish problem."
    14. 1939. Starting World War II.
    15. 1939 - 1945. Numerous tactical errors during the war including Stalingrad, Kursk, and many more.
    16. 1939-1945. Allying with Islamic jihadist forces in the Middle East. It seemed insignificant at the time. Nazi ideology helped inspire modern jihadist ideology.
    17. 1939-1940. Failure to pursue a truce with Great Britain. Germany's aerial bombardment fails with the Battle of Britain in 1940.
    18. 1940. Germany moves U-boats off Atlantic duty. Thanks to this decision, Britain received enough food imports to continue the war.
    19. 1941. Germany attacks the USSR and the Balkans at the same time, instead of prioritizing the USSR.
    20. 1941. Germany attacks Russia, and doesn't send cold weather gear with the troops.
    21. 1941-1942. On the eastern front in Operation Barbarossa, Hitler fails to capture Moscow while the USSR staggers. The USSR has time to pull from its massive resources, and eventually defeats Germany, leading to the rape of Berlin.
    22. 1941. Instead of canceling its alliance with the Empire of Japan after Pearl Harbor, Germany responds to the USA declaring war on Japan by declaring war on the USA.
    23. 1939-1944. Germany fails to prioritize the Me-262, the first jet fighter plane. It is finally put into use, but it is too late to make a difference in the war.
    24. 1957. Treaty of Rome leads to what is today the European Union. After Germany failed to win either of the two world wars, Germany tried to win the peace by creating very close economic links within Europe. The result is a sclerotic bureaucracy overhanging Europe and Germany like a cancer.
    25. 1992. Treaty of Maastricht takes the next step in creating the European Union.
    26. Continuing. Not paying enough attention to information security. Britain listened in on Germany's transocean cable traffic in World War I, allowing it to intercept the Zimmerman telegram. German encryption codes were broken in World War II (Britain's "Magic"). It was revealed a few years ago that Angela Merkel was spied on by other countries. This appears to never end.
    27. Continuing. Failure to instill Germanic cultural pride in youth while tempering that with a health dose of respect for others. Avoiding a fawning worship of other cultures, such as practiced by Angela Merkel. Failure to try to create international cultural ties (not political ties) between Germanic peoples around the world, and generally trying to live in peace with all neighbors without economically dominating them (EU) or allowing elites and self-haters to run imimgration policy.
    28. Other. ________

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    You have got to be kidding. All these are child's play in comparison to the cultural and racial suicide brought about by Angela Merkel upon the people of Germany.

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    Senior Member Englisc's Avatar
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    My top 3 would be:

    1. Above all: Invading Poland, 1939/ Invading the USSR, 1941. You can have either of these really; first kicked off the war, second brought in the Russians (who did most of the heavy lifting in actually beating Germany). WW2 led to death of 10% of Germany's people, destruction of unquantifiable amount of cultural and physical heritage, and the permanent removal of Germany's eastern territories and cleansing of most Germans from eastern Europe.

    2. Letting in Turks in 1961. Along with subsequent family reunion, this has lead to a Turkish population of over 3 million, many of which even now can only speak broken German.

    3. The current ongoing "refugee" influx, prompted by Merkel's decision to throw open the country's borders to any Syrian, or other Middle Eastern/Asian, migrant who turns up. We haven't even begun to see the disaster this is for Germany.

    A lot about WW1 is up for debate, even to this day you see pretty heated debates about whether it was Austria, Germany, Serbia, or Russia responsible for starting the war. I'd blame the Serbian rebels and Austria mainly. Germany did have a big role in the later escalation of the conflict.

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    Concerning WWII:

    1. Giving traitor Paulus a very serious command who then failed miserably.
    2. No coordination with Japan. Japan should have attacked USSR from the east instead of attacking USA (perhaps if they had realized the attack better it would have made the war play out differently; instead of the hit and run stupidity that they did).
    Lieber tot als Sklave!

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    The land and countryside of Germany may be beloved, but from a strategic point of view, it is a terrible misfortune to be located in north central Europe, between major powers France and Russia, and without easy access to the free oceans. Geographically, Germany has nothing but horrible disadvantages.

    Bismarck put Germany into the best position diplomatically. Eventually, his good work was eroded, and Germany faced the inevitability of a two-front war.

    Germany could actually have won a small victory in World War I. I like #4. The problem is that while people saw Russia as the sick man of Europe, they did not see the Tsardom cracking apart as it did.

    A common criticism is that Germany should not have begun unrestricted submarine warfare in World War I. That was the major factor bringing the USA into the war, and very shortly thereafter the Tsar in Russia fell. Had Germany held off, the USA would have remained neutral and the war could have shortly become a one-front, much more winnable war.

    To me, the major mistake in World War II was really the whole thing, #12. Even if Germany avoids the many mistakes it made and triumphs, it would be a short-lived empire. What Hitler and the Nazis did not understand is that in order to create a lasting nation-state, you cannot just wipe out whole peoples and expect to be treated as good neighbors by everyone else. Even if you look past the bad things that were done, it is not wise to antagonize such a large group of people so intensely as the Nazis did.

    I see the following mistake occurring again and again in German history: a feigned interest in others coupled with a deep disinterest in others. Germany had a tin ear for the bad publicity it engendered in World War I by invading Belgium, by using poison gas, and by sinking civilian ships. That bad publicity caused nations to rise up against Germany. German intelligence is constantly getting whipped in both world wars. There is no sense of what others are thinking. Instead, Germans are deeply focused inward, believing that if they just keep doing things better than everyone else, they will somehow achieve some important national aim or objective. Just keep fighting better or engineering better weapons or do some other job better than the other side does theirs, and the war will eventually be won.

    Today, leftist Germans are deeply disinterested in Islam. They truly believe it is about as different from the Christian church as Catholics are from Lutherans. They are deeply disinterested in learning about other cultures. They only pretend to be interested in them, but they only are interested in how other cultures like Islam can enrich them personally in profits, charitable vanity, food, cuisine, entertainment, drugs, music, and exotic sex. They are not so interested as to allow their worldview, or weltanschaung, to be altered in the slightest. Islam cannot be serious about world domination. If only the German left does their job of policing the common people's opinions better than their opponents the right-wingers do, they will triumph and achieve their international objective, creating a utopia to which all must bend their will. It is ironic that their utopia can only exist in intellectually impoverished, emotionally stunted dreams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haliaeetus View Post
    2. No coordination with Japan. Japan should have attacked USSR from the east instead of attacking USA (perhaps if they had realized the attack better it would have made the war play out differently; instead of the hit and run stupidity that they did).
    Attack what? Forests and poorly built villages and towns?

    Dec. 1941 Japan tried to eliminate any military threat to its expansion of its co-prosperity sphere... the threat did not lie in the mud huts of khabarovsk.

    Just like Japan lacked the logistics to actually attack the USA, it lacked the ability to make any meaningful dent in the Soviet Union proper.

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    Senior Member Englisc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammish View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Haliaeetus
    2. No coordination with Japan. Japan should have attacked USSR from the east instead of attacking USA (perhaps if they had realized the attack better it would have made the war play out differently; instead of the hit and run stupidity that they did).
    Attack what? Forests and poorly built villages and towns?

    Dec. 1941 Japan tried to eliminate any military threat to its expansion of its co-prosperity sphere... the threat did not lie in the mud huts of khabarovsk.

    Just like Japan lacked the logistics to actually attack the USA, it lacked the ability to make any meaningful dent in the Soviet Union proper.
    There had been Japanese-Soviet border clashes in 1939, won by the Soviets, discouraging Japan from joining Germany two years later.

    http://thediplomat.com/2012/08/the-f...e-war-of-1939/
    http://nationalinterest.org/feature/...orgotten-13956

    As Hammish says, there was little in the way of population or natural resources in south-east Russia. Moscow had no reason to prioritise the east over European Russia (where most of the population lives) if Japan had invaded.

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    Senior Member Irminson's Avatar
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    Loosing WW2 essentially

    Everything bad that followed like the EU and the suicide going on now - or rather starting with letting in the Turks and reaching its climax today - stems from loosing the war.
    In my opinion it was particularly wrong to invade Russia and to let go of Britain - so starting Barbarossa and not starting Seelöwe (sea lion). Though I still believe, Barbarossa was a preemptive strike we should have rather dug in and let them come, just defending our country and showing them that it'll cost them big time if they dare; maybe we could've scared them off.
    Letting go of Britain because the RAF put up a hell of a fight and we lost planes big time was the other huge mistake. We were spooked because this wasn't a Blitzkrieg and we had grown used to walking over everyone. I guess landing troops in Britain would have forced Churchill to negotiate a peace and get the British out of a war we didn't want them in, in the first place. This is not to offend the British brothers and sisters in this forum - you were one hell of an enemy and it's a shame we had to fight each other. I just think it was a major strategic mistake.

    But then again, it's easy to point back in time and say what mistakes were made. Back then it probably looked a whole of a lot different to the people in charge.

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    Senior Member SaxonCeorl's Avatar
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    As for Germany itself, I don't know that Germany is much worse off than countries like the UK and France in terms of non-European immigration. Whatever the statistics might show, they're certainly not alone in the current mess we deal with.

    That said, one might argue that it's impossible to have a reasonable, ethno-nationalist outlook today without it being conflated with the Nazi regime and its atrocities. So perhaps allowing the rise of Hitler and the Nazi party was the biggest mistake in modern European history, not just German history.

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    How long has Skadi been around, twelve, or fifteen years? Yet it is always the same old crap, going over not modern but what is now ancient history, pawing through it trying to find alternative histories.

    Screw that and that whole attitude. Germany's problems are NOW. Get you head back out of your asses and take you country back.

    I was wrong. The biggest mistake in German history was not bringing in millions of aliens to spoil your racial unity and culture, the biggest mistake in German history was electing that traitor Angela Merkel to lead you country. Do something about that. That IS within your power to change.

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