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Thread: The Forgotten Legacy of Germanic Scotland

  1. #231
    Senior Member BeornWulfWer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myrkvidr View Post
    Scots is more archaic than English - it missed the Norman influence.
    Are you discussing the Scots Gaelic or the Scots English? You are quite aware that the Scots were heavily Normanised?

    British English is approx 28% Norman French
    28% Latin
    25% Germanic
    That accounts for 81%. Saying that those were figures were actually correct, what would the other 19% be exactly?

  2. #232
    Senior Member Myrkvidr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acwellan View Post
    Are you discussing the Scots Gaelic or the Scots English? You are quite aware that the Scots were heavily Normanised?



    That accounts for 81%. Saying that those were figures were actually correct, what would the other 19% be exactly?
    Scots English. And I am aware of the Norman influence but it was not to the extent of the southern English. And the remaining percent is words of Greek, German, Scandinavian influence etc.

    I'm talking about standard British English.. the Queens English (what you might hear on Sky Sports or the BBC). If you go to South-West England or Northern England.. or really most dialect areas outside of the mainstream English it is similar to Scots in that they are more Germanic and less Romance influence.

    Let me say - my point is not to say English from England is not Germanic. My point is that Scots English (who are actually Angles anyway) have more Germanic words than the Queens English. For example the word bairn is Germanic and the word baby or infant is not. While both the Queens English and Scots English (Inglis) are Germanic, Inglis has a larger (perhaps only slightly) vocabulary of Germanic/Anglic words. With that said, I would indeed consider the Scots Germanic people.

  3. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acwellan View Post
    Are you discussing the Scots Gaelic or the Scots English? You are quite aware that the Scots were heavily Normanised?
    Indeed, many notable clans trace their descent back to Normans: Agnew, Barclay, Boyd, Boyle, Bruce, Colville, Fraser, Hamilton, Jardine, Lockhart, Lyon, Maitland, Montgomery, Napier, Nicolson, Ramsay, Riddell, Sinclair, Spens/Spence, Stuart/Stewart, Wallace ... all these names/clans are Norman in origin.

    Burnett, Chisholm, Dunbar, Irvine, Johnstone, Lumsden, Nesbitt, Scrymgeour, Swinton are all names which are likely derived from Anglo-Saxon sources.

    Murray, Sutherland both trace their lineage back to the same Flemish nobleman, Freskin de Moravie.

    Gayre, Gordon, Guthrie, Lindsay, Morrison and Ruthven are all undoubtedly Norse in origin. MacAlister, MacDougall and MacDonald trace their name back to Norse/Manx chieftain Somerled. MacLeod is likely also derived from Norse. Clan Rollo - as rare as the name may be these days, DO trace their name back directly to Sigurd Rollo, the Viking.

    Most other clan names, just under half, are of Gaelic origin. This is especially notable for the Highland Clans. Most Lowland Clans are fundamentally of Germanic origin one way or the other. And yes, many of them Norman.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

  4. #234
    Senior Member Walterina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myrkvidr View Post
    certainly

    Scots is more archaic than English - it missed the Norman influence. The Great vowel shift did not occur in the Scots language as it did in English among other things. There is more in the vocabulary (if you do not count loan words) in Scots that is Germanic and from the Angles than in modern British English.

    British English is approx 28% Norman French
    28% Latin
    25% Germanic
    Gaelic is not a Germanic language but is Brythonic.

    I have pointed out in another thread that the amount of all possible vocabularly is not the same as the language that is used day to day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myrkvidr View Post

    Let me say - my point is not to say English from England is not Germanic. My point is that Scots English (who are actually Angles anyway) have more Germanic words than the Queens English. For example the word bairn is Germanic and the word baby or infant is not. While both the Queens English and Scots English (Inglis) are Germanic, Inglis has a larger (perhaps only slightly) vocabulary of Germanic/Anglic words. With that said, I would indeed consider the Scots Germanic people.

    Bairn is also used in many parts of England.

    RP (Received Pronunciation) is alien to many English people. They are looked down upon because of it.

  5. #235
    Senior Member Myrkvidr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walterina View Post
    Gaelic is not a Germanic language but is Brythonic.

    I have pointed out in another thread that the amount of all possible vocabularly is not the same as the language that is used day to day.
    We were not talking about Gaelic? I'm confused about that comment

    That is very true about vocabulary. For instance, much of base English used is Germanic.. there are a large amount of French/Latin words but these are primarily for "flavoring" the language as some might say. For instance the word royal and things like that.




    Quote Originally Posted by Walterina View Post
    Bairn is also used in many parts of England.
    yes exactly (northern parts... the same Angle groups that the Scots are part of. I think the word is Norse in origin)... once again, my point is not to say English is not Germanic.. rather it's to say that Scots is Germanic.

  6. #236
    Senior Member Walterina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myrkvidr View Post




    yes exactly (northern parts... the same Angle groups that the Scots are part of. I think the word is Norse in origin)... once again, my point is not to say English is not Germanic.. rather it's to say that Scots is Germanic.

    True, much of Lowland Scotland used to part of an Anglo Saxon Kingdom.

  7. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walterina View Post
    Gaelic is not a Germanic language but is Brythonic.
    Very true, but I'm sure you meant to say Gaelic is Goidelic, not Brythonic?

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    Scotland is "Germanic" to the extent that Germanic languages were traditionally spoken in some parts of the country. So the Lowlands and northern Isles are Germanic, and the Highlands and Hebrides are not. There are Viking place names and genetic evidence of Viking ancestry in the Hebrides, but the language and culture are Gaelic.

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    I like to think that the Scots are ''Celto-Germanic''. Although I'm not 100% Scottish - I feel that most Scotsman feel a closer affitinity to the English and the rest of the Germanic world. A lot of Scottish inventors, generals and soldiers, contributed greatly to the creation and expansion of the British Empire.

  10. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatest View Post
    I feel that most Scotsman feel a closer affitinity to the English and the rest of the Germanic world, than say the Irish
    Correct.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatest View Post
    (who hate both the Scots and English and conspire to find a connection with the Basque, Bretons and Northern Spaniards.
    On a racial plain, I do not hate the Irish at all. Now when it comes to their political orientations and personal identification, that is another story.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatest View Post
    That's all Irish. We're Celto-Germanic"
    And I do not consider myself “Celto-Germanic”.

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