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Thread: The Curse of the "Net Nazi"

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    The Curse of the "Net Nazi"




    If somebody with "mainstream" political views stumbles across a WN forum, what are they likely to find?

    Will they find a selection of news articles under-reported by the mainstream media, or not reported at all? It's likely that they will, and this might hopefully spark some interest in the WN viewpoint, which may or may not lead to more open support.

    Will they find a source of intelligent debate, and an arena in which their political views are open to a genuine challenge? The answer, I would say, is generally yes, leading to the extraordinary revelation that, contrary to popular belief, WNs are NOT maniacs intent on kidnapping every non-White person they see and sacrificing them on the shrine to Hitler (complete with Nazi-era poster) that they've built in their garage.

    However, will the unlucky reader pick a random WN forum, and wade head-first into "debate" like this?

    "The Holocaust NEVER happened - do some reading. All the people who say it did are just following the Jews' agenda"

    "Is (insert name of celebrity) a Jew? He/she looks it"

    "I'm a true WN - I name the Jew" (they tend to leave out "often incorrectly")

    "Brazilians ARE NOT White!" (you could swap Brazil for any country in South America in this particular statement)

    If you hadn't already guessed - welcome to the world of the "Net Nazi".

    Virtually every WN forum in existence will have its own resident population, whether they're known as the "hardliners", "extremists", the "not one drop" wing, call them what you will. In many cases, they tend to be a highly visible presence on forums.

    They also tend to be an acutely embarrassing presence, as well.

    This sector of the movement is the first place the mainstream media looks when a journalist is itching to write a "violent neo-Nazi" article. They also occasionally enjoy conspiracy theories so wild even the "Moon landing was a hoax" brigade laugh at them, and if they had the funds, I'm sure there would be an attempt to extract Hitler's DNA and create a human clone of him.

    As strange as they might seem, all of the slightly odder "Net Nazi" tendencies would be mitigated if they were a genuine benefit to the movement.

    The fact is - they're not.

    Many of them advocate racial purity laws so severe even Hitler probably would have fallen foul of them - yet when was the last time a "Net Nazi" took a DNA test to make sure of the "100% White" heritage they so proudly boast about?

    Then, there are those who look on "the masses" with disdain - how many times have you seen "sheeple" used on forums? - but just where do they think the sheer numbers of votes will come from? The WN movement as it stands is simply not strong enough to elect politicians under its' own steam - securing the popular vote is Politics 101. Even so, there are still those who think that committed WNs rallying behind one candidate will be enough to sweep them to power.

    They might want to take a look at a historical example, where a mere 6.5% of the vote and just 32 seats were won in the German elections of 1924. The party in question? The NSDAP.

    The most unfortunate trait of all, though, is that many "Net Nazis" seem to revel in their own ignorance, and in any other scenario, they would just be dismissed as a "lunatic fringe". The problem is that WN politics is unlike every other scenario, because mainstream political opinion wants to knock us down at every turn - if one sector of the movement come across as ignorant idiots, then we're all tarred as ignorant idiots. The argument often turns here into "David Duke wore a suit and had a respectable image, and STILL didn't secure many votes" - as if a candidate wearing an ill-fitting SS uniform from the fancy dress shop who blames every problem since the Biblical flood on the Jews somehow magically will?!

    Far too many WN forums can sometimes have the feel of lunatics running the asylum. WNs KNOW how much the mainstream media loves a good "Dumb Nazi" story - so WHY do we keep supplying the ammunition?

    I am sure that a proportion of "Net Nazis" genuinely believe in the greater WN movement and want its success. If you do, PLEASE try looking at the bigger, more realistic picture - the "Hitler = pure evil" connection has been fed to the public for so long that it will probably never be shaken off, no matter how many examples of movements like Stalinism, the Gulag, the Khmer Rouge and the North Korean regime are used to counteract it.

    If, however, you are the kind of person who wants to appear "hardcore", yet thinks "Mein Kampf" is Rammstein's new single, and the only Order you've ever been involved in was placed with your local pizza takeaway, then you are NOT NEEDED. While I'm aware that "shock value" can be used as an attraction - Skrewdriver's "When The Boat Comes In" was the first WN song I ever heard (having found it by typing "******" into Napster, I'll admit) - once the shock wears off, are you going to look for more substance, or will you be stuck at that first stage, not realising the damage that certain aspects of the movement can cause when we want to be taken seriously? Grinded Nig, anyone?

    Virtually everyone knows of the infamous "Arbeit Macht Frei" slogan, but if I had to choose an alternative to reflect White Nationalism today, then it would be "Unterricht Macht Frei" - "education makes you free", as It's through education, intelligent debate and clever campaigning - basically, everything our opponents DON'T want to associate with us - that White Nationalism will start to grow.
    source http://malevolentfreedom.org/content/curse-net-nazi

    "Make strong old dreams lest our world lose heart." -Ezra Pound



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    Quote Originally Posted by Hersir View Post
    Many of them advocate racial purity laws so severe even Hitler probably would have fallen foul of them - yet when was the last time a "Net Nazi" took a DNA test to make sure of the "100% White" heritage they so proudly boast about?
    At least on Skadi and Apricity, there are lots of members who have taken DNA tests to see how European they are.

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    I'm pretty well aware of this type on Nationalist forums, but this isn't restricted to WN/Nationalist forums, these kinds of people are everywhere on the internet. I think the best thing is just not to engage them, period, and let them make fools of themselves with their pseudo-militant, tough-guy rhetoric.
    Let truth and falsehood grapple...truth is strong-
    John Milton

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    I agree with much of what the author says, but i think that he overestimates the importance of hard work and underestimates the importance of seizing the revolutionary moment.

    Speaking about the NDSAPs electoral history, in 1930 it gained 2,8 percent of the vote, and Hitler was viewed as a looney toon on the extreme right fringe of politics. In May 1931 Austrian Kreditanstalt failed and the second leg of the depression began. In early 1933, less than two years later, it was "Sieg Heil mein Führer!".

    In the summer of 1917 Lenin was hiding from the police, living and sleeping in a haystack outside S:t Petersburg. Less than six months later he was king of the hill and the Bolsjeviks turned old Russia into the USSR which we all know and love. 50 years of fruitless and tedious revolutionary struggle culminated and succeeded in less than a year. And the February revolution that sparked the whole thing seems to have been an entirely spontaneous affair provoked by popular dissatisfaction with the war effort and living conditions in general.

    We could say the same thing about Revolutionary France and Civil War England, how grudges and dissent that had been smoldering for years suddenly found public favor and exploded into revolution almost over night. What is important is not so much working to win people over as to make sure that there will be a political infrastructure in place once circumstances mobilizes the masses.

    The strategy of the Communist party was always to build a cadre that could act as the crystallization point around which the activated masses could be gathered and formed into a revolutionary movement. It was not so much mass preaching to the masses as we might believe. They were quite open with that the mission of the Communist was to guide and transform the spontaneous struggle of the masses.

    Education is important in that it will help attract and build the cadre around which the actual movement will form, but to believe that education alone will activate and attract the masses is, I am afraid, to delude oneself.

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    One of the observations of Colin Jordan is that nationalism and national socialism aren't the same thing, and he cites the example of Italian fascism as a form nationalism. One of Mussolini's more ardent supporters of the time was the Chief Rabbi of Rome, but this was prior to the alliance with the Germans. National socialism is a different ideal entirely as it postulates a worldview based on the Aryan folk, which transcends purely physical borders of state and nation- although this was the pan-national socialism that Jordan advocated with his American counterpart George Lincoln Rockwell (these men co-founded the defunct World Union of National Socialists in the 60s, which had members from a variety of countries). I can't recall offhandedly if Hitler, Hess, etc. considered national socialism to be a workable system of government outside of Germany proper.

    Nowadays people, at least in the US, who call themselves national socialists are largely clownish imposters in my estimation, as they simply grab onto the physical emblems of the old German NSDAP without really grasping the inner ideas behind national socialism (rejection of democracy and democratic ideals, blood/folk/soil tripartite, and so on).

    Most of my knowledge of national socialism (which I think is an interesting topic despite my lessening disapproval of it) comes from perusing the writings of post-war national socialists like Jordan, Rockwell, etc. along with Mein Kampf. The comments of Lindbergh are also interesting in providing an American opinion of the German political system of the pre-war period.

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    The Jew obsession is embarrassing and paranoid. By the time you get to outright conspiracy theory its a red herring away from actual Jewish ethnic networking. which is the real cause of conflict, nothing mystical about the Jews.

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    The Jew obsession is embarrassing and paranoid.
    I agree with this, some seem to think that if Jews disappeared tomorrow then the world will magically reset itself and Whites will become racially aware 1950s style citizens.

    For every Jew involved in feminism, civil rights, marxism etc you'll find ten Whites with the same beliefs.

    Without white traitors, the Jews would never have gotten where they are now.
    Anglo-Saxons are forbidden the same level of racial consciousness of other groups (even amongst Whites).

    While our many accomplishments are forgotten, there is no end of blaming Anglo-Saxons for the problems and inadequacies of the world (White & non-white alike).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhaegar Thorwald View Post
    I agree with this, some seem to think that if Jews disappeared tomorrow then the world will magically reset itself and Whites will become racially aware 1950s style citizens.

    For every Jew involved in feminism, civil rights, marxism etc you'll find ten Whites with the same beliefs.

    Without white traitors, the Jews would never have gotten where they are now.
    Another thing is, you have to decide 'bad for us' as opposed to 'morally bad'. I won't blame anyone for looking after their own, I just expect we goyim whites to do the same.

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    the "Hitler = pure evil" connection has been fed to the public for so long that it will probably never be shaken off, no matter how many examples of movements like Stalinism, the Gulag, the Khmer Rouge and the North Korean regime are used to counteract it.

    […]

    Virtually everyone knows of the infamous "Arbeit Macht Frei" slogan, but if I had to choose an alternative to reflect White Nationalism today, then it would be "Unterricht Macht Frei" - "education makes you free", as It's through education, intelligent debate and clever campaigning - basically, everything our opponents DON'T want to associate with us - that White Nationalism will start to grow.
    The author contradicts himself here because a sound education would reveal that the whole "Hitler = pure evil" meme is just hypocritical BS Allied propaganda. Discrediting this meme also discredits the prevailing order.
    — Always outnumbered but never outclassed —

  10. #10
    You're right that he is contradicting himself. Generally speaking though, I doubt discrediting the meme would discredit the order, because the order is based on more than the meme.
    Nationalsocialism and fascism have been the perfect antimyth for liberalism and marxism (both have used the 'fascist' as an enemy in their own specific way and eventually have found common ground in the relationship of ethical liberalism and cultural marxism). But liberalism and marxism have been around long before the rise of nationalsocialism and fascism. The allied propaganda merely enforced what they already told us before the war. The fact that Hitler lost te war was a very welcome development and strengthened the ideological position of the allied countries, but it remained nothing more than propoganda. The prevailing order adopted this myth of the enemy, making it a very important instrument, but this enemy is not its foundation. Therefor it is primarily important to attack the order itself, not one of its instruments.
    Furthermore, propaganda is about creating a certain effect. This effect is already in place. People have already internalized the thought processes created by the propaganda and they have almost become an autonomous mechanism, detached from its foundational myth. This is apperent not only in the case of nationalsocialist Germany, but also Apartheid South-Africa. Confronting someone with atrocities commited by the other side (the allied countries or the blacks in South Africa) people always reply with 'well, they had it coming', 'it was their own fault' or 'that's something different'. This type of Orwellian doublethink perfectly illustrates that the propaganda has already served its purpose.
    Overall I consider the study of nationalsocialism and fascism in an objective manner, although detached from allied propaganda, as a matter of historical research. Nothing should compel us not to study the benefits of these movements, but also its flaws: for example, when atrocities have been committed by the allied countries, they also have been committed by the axis countries; that's something a lot of modern day nationalsocialists tend to overlook. But this is the work of the historian. In politics I consider it to be our main priority to counter the order as such, independent of what its road to success has been.

    As a general reply to the article, I think there are two levels to this problem.
    The first is that of intelligence. Because of the manicheist dichotomy that has been created in the Western world, in which nationalsocialism and fascism are the absolute evil, while liberal democracy is paradise, people of low intelligence become trapped in this black and white framework very easily. On the right this often leads to a moral reversal of the scheme in which what is considered evil by most people is turned into the representative of the absolute good. These people are thus still not able to escape the framing that was created by propaganda, they only changed sides. Because of their low intelligence they chose the easy framework that was already at hand. Not to mention the type of people who only do it because they want to be considered evil by the rest of society, but that's not really what we are dealing with here.
    The second level is that of our historical situation. To what extent is it helpful or necessary (we're not talking solely about utility of course) to be a nationalsocialist in this day and age? I'm not talking about whether one agrees with its ideas or not, but on whether it is what we need or even whether it's possible. We have to establish the predominantly political nature of these movements in the past. They had their ideologies, but these were secondary. Historically they arose out of political movements of action. Mussolini's statement that he did not need any program, to some extent applies to nationalsocialism as well. To be a nationalsocialist therefor means to be someone of the past; it means to adhere to goals that were created in response to the questions posed by a specific historical timeframe. That is why there's no use for a nationalsocialism in the twentyfirst century. It's an anachronism (which by the way liberalism and marxism are as well). Nonetheless its principles can serve as a source of inspiration. But these have to be applied in a different context and cease to be 'nationalsocialist' or 'fascist' in nature. The principle of action, perhaps more than ever, can pave the way to a new and positive future. The 'völkisch' ideas, even in its more ideologically nationalsocialist form in Rosenberg's work, can help us understand what is at stake as well. But we don't live in the early twentieth century. We don't live in a historical context of fighting ideologies. We live in a fully liberalized world and it's from this perspective that we have to rise again. The principles that can serve as a foundation for the challenge we have to face can be found throughout our history. But it would be futile to stick to a movement that tried to find an answer to the questions of its time, while the questions we have to answer have become very different.

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