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Thread: Runestones of Vinland/ North America

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    Runestones of Vinland/ North America

    Having recently relocated to Oklahoma, I've had chance to visit the famous Heavener Runestone. Since seeing it, I've learned that there have been a number of other runestones and the like found scattered across the US, with Heavener and Kensington being the most well known.

    Scholars disagree as to the authenticity of these. Ones found in the northeast, like Kensington and maineseem much more plausible as we are now finding settlements up and down the northeast coastline. But to go so far as Oklahoma in the midwest?

    What do you guys think of these? Why would someone go through that much trouble to fake a runestone? Especially a hundred or more years ago when they were all discovered? How many people would have had even a basic level of understanding of runes, even amongst Scandinavian settlers of the time?
    I'm a rover, seldom sober. I'm a rover of high degree. And when I'm drinking I'm always thinking of how to gain my love's company.

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    There was scandinavian traveller in northern USA who was amazed about all the names, the native indians gave to places (as seen on road signs). He understood them perfectly as they were old-norse.

    He studied it more and made comparizons between old-norse and native american words. He filled 10 volumes with them.

    White tribes lived in the US at the time of 'discovery' of America.

    There have been found large roads and buildings under water close to Cuba and other islands with shallow water.

    In Florida are channels and other artificial waterways.

    The Ing-Ka (Inka) spoke a language which was called Runa-Simi. My wife who is russian, recognized some old russians words with a associated meaning.

    The Kennewick men of fame attests that there have been white people in America 7,000 years ago.

    Samuel de Champlain, the 'discoverer' of Canada travelled down the St. Lorenz and at the Great Lakes met a white tribe.

    Viking Sagas tell about white people in the Americas (6 day travels South West from Iceland) ((these are not about Erik the Red)).

    There are too many hints that America was white a long time ago.

    And connections have been there too.
    weel nich will dieken dej mot wieken

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    Senior Member Thorbrand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocko View Post
    There was scandinavian traveller in northern USA who was amazed about all the names, the native indians gave to places (as seen on road signs). He understood them perfectly as they were old-norse.

    He studied it more and made comparizons between old-norse and native american words. He filled 10 volumes with them.
    Ocko, what is the name of these volumes or the traveller? It would be interesting to look into this.

    I've read about the runestones and it seems to me that from what you are both saying there is an awful lot of smoke that must indicate some fire. I remember my delight to find carved runes on a balustrade in the Hagia Sofia, Istanbul probably left by a bored Varangian guard. Sure, it's a lot closer to home than the American continent but these were the supreme warrior-trader-explorers.

    “unless they know, mystically, that beneath the concrete lies the earth which has nourished their race for a thousand years and ... that it is their own earth from which their blood is shed and renewed, then they are a lost people, and easy prey for those who have lacked roots for many centuries"
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    New studies

    Most doubting scientists and historians suspect that the Kensington Runestone was carved by Olof Ohman, a man of little formal education who was born in Sweden and farmed near Kensington. He claimed to have found the stone on his property, wrapped in the roots of a tree. Historians have put a great deal into the story that he wanted to pull a hoax on educated people.

    But in the past year, a small group of scientists led by St. Paul geologist Scott Wolter have examined the runestone closely, including studying it with powerful microscopes in his laboratory. After investigating weathering and other features, they have concluded that the letters were carved long ago, long before Ohman's time, perhaps in Viking time.

    Both the Kensington Runestone and the AVM stone probably were incised with hammer and chisel and display the ancient Scandinavian language called runes.

    The AVM stone also carries the runic date of 1363 -- a year after the runestone date -- and has some runic letters, which the team speculates may stand for "Christ the Savior conquers."

    One of the archaeologists conducting the dig was Mike Michlovic, professor of anthropology and earth science at Minnesota State University, Moorhead. He calls himself a skeptic about the runestone, but adds that he's willing to keep an open mind.

    Historians who don't believe the runestone legend say the second rock might have been carved in 1898 or 2001 or anytime in between, but not in 1363.

    Battle site?

    To Westin, who found the stone, the two dates of 1362 and 1363 suggest that Vikings didn't just pass through what's now Kensington, but wintered there or at least came through a second time. Either possibility gives her the chills. Did the AVM stone mark the place where a battle took place? Or was it carved in memory of someone who died over the hard winter?

    A Minneapolis stone sculptor and calligrapher, Westin, 44, is knowledgeable in the history of stone carving, which she realizes will make some suspect her of carving the AVM rock herself. (She adamantly denies that.) The team asked her last November to study the carving on the Kensington Runestone. She said she began open-minded and came to the viewpoint that the inscription is valid.
    From Rense, so its somewhat not secure.
    weel nich will dieken dej mot wieken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorbrand View Post
    Ocko, what is the name of these volumes or the traveller? It would be interesting to look into this.

    I've read about the runestones and it seems to me that from what you are both saying there is an awful lot of smoke that must indicate some fire. I remember my delight to find carved runes on a balustrade in the Hagia Sofia, Istanbul probably left by a bored Varangian guard. Sure, it's a lot closer to home than the American continent but these were the supreme warrior-trader-explorers.




    I can't the find the article I read some years ago. But I do believe the books mentioned are these:

    http://www.abebooks.com/book-search/...quin-language/

    if you want to see more claimed evidence look here

    http://www.frozentrail.org/



    there are plenty of articles about the books

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bl.../2684571/posts


    there is one type of comparison:

    Michigan and Milwaukee are two examples from his books. Those are names said to be Algonquin, with Michigan meaning “middle sea basin” and Milwaukee meaning “good, beautiful land.”

    In Old Norse, “midh” means “middle,” or “lying in the middle”: and “sjoe-kum” or “sjoe-kumme” means “sea basin” or “sea reservoir.”

    “Lake Michigan lies midway between Lake Huron and Lake Superior, hence the translation would be correct,” Sherwin wrote.

    Milwaukee, in Old Norse, is “milde aak(r)e,” meaning “the pleasant land” — an almost perfect match for the pronunciation and meaning in Algonquin, Sherwin said. Omdahl points out that in old Norwegian languages and dialects, “‘aa’ is pronounced as something between the ‘a’ in ‘war’ and the ‘o’ in ‘horse.’”

    “Today it is one of the typical Scandinavian letters — an ‘a’ with a tiny ring over it,” Omdahl said.
    weel nich will dieken dej mot wieken

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    here is another good article

    Norumbega, a Norse Colony in New England?
    by Ron Black

    Is there evidence linking Rhode Island to Vínland or another Norse colony? Paul H Chapman, author of the article "Norumbega: A Norse Colony In Rhode Island" [1], believes that the Norse settled in Rhode Island, and that after voyages to Vínland ended, they became the Narragansett Indians, emulating the styles and ways of other native Americans. However, the evidence is more speculation and hearsay than hard fact.

    Chapman's cultural evidence includes the stature and skin color of the Narragansett Indians. Verrazano, who explored the area in 1524, describes the natives as "excelling us in size" and "…are of bronze color, some inclined more to whiteness…the face sharply cut". Notably, the Norse of the time (and today) are described as having sharply cut faces. To some, this could be seen as grasping at straws, but Roger Williams, founder of the Rhode Island colony, lived among the Narragansetts and reported roughly the same. Williams also recorded that the natives children were often born with white skin and red hair. He went on the say that their skin darkened from a life out doors and that their hair was dyed a darker color as they got older.

    Chapman's other evidence is the advanced agricultural activaties of the Narragansetts. The other area tribes practiced nomadic hunting, while the Narragansetts lived and farmed in permanent communities, using hunting as a supplement for gathered food. The farming practices of the Narragansetts cannot be attributed to colonial era guidance since the colonists learned their farming practices from the natives.

    Chapman has interpreted the name Narragansett to mean Northman settlers. He breaks the name down in this way; Nar short for NORman, stating that the Old Norse often used A for O during the development of the language, gan being the Old Norse for gang meaning walk, and sett to settle.

    Existing historic and cartographic records also provide evidence of Norse settlement in this area. Two early cartographers of North America, Verrazano (1524) and Mercator (1569), place the Viking Tower of Newport, RI on their maps. While Verrazano called this location a "Norman Villa", Meractor showed the name "Norombega" as the name of this location. Mercator and other cartographers used this name for both the region and location of a local community on Narragansett Bay. The name Norombega has been broken down this way, according to Chapman: Nor meaning for Norman; um for all over; and beg for Bygd meaning an inhabited land in Old Norse. The a, at the end of the word would also be a typical suffix for Old Norse words. Other place names hailing the Nor- prefix can be found in the surrounding area. While some come from England, others are old Indian names for these areas.

    Chapman's third source of evidence is the over one hundred rune stones found in New England. Three of these were found in Narragansett Bay. To this date only one has been proven a forgery, according to Chapman. He claims that the general position of the "Establishment" is that the only Norse settlement in North America was L'Anse aux Meadows in Newfoundland. Therefore the stones found elsewhere must be fake, thus the historical community has concluded: no artifacts, no evidence, no presence.
    weel nich will dieken dej mot wieken

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    Just look at the Ulen sword, clearly a viking sword and not a modern officer's sword.



    Found in Minnesota by a farmer.

    Wikipedia claims it is most likely a 19th century sword.



    Who believes people in the 19th century fought with swords?

    There is so much evidence for white settlements in the America before Columbus, the denials become more and more ridicules
    weel nich will dieken dej mot wieken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocko View Post
    Just look at the Ulen sword, clearly a viking sword and not a modern officer's sword.



    Found in Minnesota by a farmer.

    Wikipedia claims it is most likely a 19th century sword.



    Who believes people in the 19th century fought with swords?

    There is so much evidence for white settlements in the America before Columbus, the denials become more and more ridicules
    That is not a Viking sword, while blade shape may resemble the Germanic swords of the late migration period ( Viking swords ). The hilt is all wrong.

    They did fight with swords in the 19 century, see some US civil war examples.
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    does it then resemble a 19th century sword`? What does it in MN_



    Its from ebay and the seller claims it is from civil war. Do not know whether that is true.

    that is the closest civil war sword I could find and the blade is much narrower than the sword found in MN.

    Most civil war swords had hand protection and look more like sabres than swords.

    that is what was written in the newspaper 1880,

    The following story appeared on the front page of the Preston [Fillmore county, MN] Republican on 15 Apr 1880:

    --The Caledonia Argus has been shown an ancient two edged Spanish sword, 564 years old, as shown by the date arranged upon it, which was picked up in the woods, in Houston county, in 1854, lying on the ground thickly encrusted with rust. The blade of this strange weapon is twenty-four and one-half inches in length, one inch and a quarter in width at the hilt, from which it tapers gradually to the point. The blade is quite rusty, but in large ancient figures widely spread, the date "1316" is deeply engraven and plainly discernable on either side. Also on each side of the blade, about one third of its length from the hilt, are partially obliterated engravings of a knight on horseback, the design of which is extremely crude. The guard, which is nearly three inches in width, is of brass, elaborately engraved with a shield and other devices which are not decipherable. The handle mountings are also made of brass, and engraved like the hilt. This interesting relic of antiquity was found in Wilmington township, by a brother of the present owner (Bailey Webster,) who was chopping poles in a poplar thicket, when his axe accidently struck the ancient blade, which was lying on the ground under a thick covering of grass and leaves. The handle had entirely rotted away, leaving only the iron or steel center or brass trimmings. The sword is of ancient Spanish pattern, and the date engraved upon it renders its antiquity indisputable. How this ancient weapon came upon the soil of Houston county will probably further remain a mystery. Whether it was brought by some old Spanish explorer, and afterwards came in to the possession of the Indians, or whatever its origin may be, the curious may imagine for themselves.
    laying on the ground though sounds suspicious.The story changed to be buried deeply in the earth and found only because the farmer ploughed deeper because of drought.
    weel nich will dieken dej mot wieken

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    It is a costume sword for theater use, and you can still buy them.

    Here is a discussion about the said swords

    https://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=247692

    One look at the blade could also give it away. It is of mono steel construction and Viking era swords are pattern welded with usually a wrought iron core wrapped with an edge billet of high carbon steel. There has been much research into Germanic swords of the Viking era because they were so far advanced for their time period. In my opinion the Vikings did very little of their own sword forging and instead got the blades from Frankish traders and the blades were most likely made in the Rhine valley. It is just one theory, but it seems very plausible given examples of other migration period seaxes, spears, knives and swords from the same time frame.
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