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Thread: When They Come For Your Guns ...

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    Senior Member SaxonPagan's Avatar
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    When They Come For Your Guns ...

    When They Come For Your Guns .... You Will Turn Them Over

    "When they come for my gun, they will have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands," is a common refrain I often hear from the Neo-Cons when there is a threat, credible or otherwise, that the US government is going to take their firearms.

    And, when I hear this crazy talk, I agree with them openly. "You are right. They will pry your gun from your cold dead hands," which I often follow with the question, "And where will that leave you except face down in a pool of your own blood the middle of the street, just another dead fool resisting the State?"

    This is not a question they are comfortable with, if only because the intent of their saber-rattling was to imply they would fight to keep their weapons, and win.

    Nice fantasy. It’s not happening.

    If the federal government decides to disarm the public, and one of these (see photo below) rolls down your street after a not-so-subtle request that you kindly turn over your firearms and ammunition "for the common good," it will be nothing less than suicide by cop to do anything other than what you are told.


    The militarization of US police forces is ongoing and escalating. Many cities and towns now own tanks, armed personnel carriers, even attack helicopters, and almost all are outfitted with military weapons not available to the general public.


    And, it is not just your hometown cops who are getting new boy-toys. The military itself is buying up weaponry not just for use in the current or next scheduled war, but to deal with the likes of you, citizens who don't seem to understand that the Bill of Rights has been overruled, and that specifically includes, but is not limited to, the right to protest and engage in civil disobedience.

    Also ignored (as if it didn't even exist) is the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 which generally bars the military from law enforcement activities within the United States.

    According to Public Intelligence:

    "...for the last two years, the President’s Budget Submissions for the Department of Defense have included purchases of a significant amount of combat equipment, including armored vehicles, helicopters and even artillery, under an obscure section of the FY2008 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for the purposes of “homeland defense missions, domestic emergency responses, and providing military support to civil authorities.” Items purchased under the section include combat vehicles, tanks, helicopters, artillery, mortar systems, missiles, small arms and communications equipment. Justifications for the budget items indicate that many of the purchases are part of routine resupply and maintenance, yet in each case the procurement is cited as being “necessary for use by the active and reserve components of the Armed Forces for homeland defense missions, domestic emergency responses, and providing military support to civil authorities” under section 1815 of the FY 2008 NDAA." (Emphasis supplied.)

    And, they are not just arming cops and weekend warriors for domestic purposes. Active duty Marines are now being trained for law enforcement operations all over the world (of which the US remains a part) specifically to deal with civil uprisings, and the US government knows that civil uprisings are coming to a town near you just as soon as the fantasy of a healing economy is shattered, the US dollar fails, and unemployment goes to 30%+ in real numbers.


    And, to you tough-talking Neo-Cons with your AR-15 rifles and a few thousand rounds of ammo, here is reality: they will take your guns, and no, all your Second Amendment bluster aside, you are not going to do anything about it. You are not going to take on a platoon of Marines with state of the art automatic weapons and the best body armor you cannot buy protected by armed personnel carriers and attack helicopters unless you choose to die that day -- for nothing.

    You will either be in the country or out, and if you are in, you will stay in and you will comply.

    That is your choice ... for the moment.

    -------------------------------------

    http://www.dollarvigilante.com/blog/...them-over.html

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    Assuming of course every single member of the armed forces and law enforcement are going to blindly follow and act on such an unconstitutional order and turn on their friends and family. If you are not a complete muppet you'll have some stuff cached away and other plans for such an occurrence.

    Agreed alot of it is bluster from those not educated enough to have any tactical foresight. If a bunch of ragheads can give people a hard time with a few Ak47s and stuff from under the kitchen sink, anybody can. There is always a way of getting hold of the bigger stuff. Look at most modern rebellions.

    There is a difference between being willing to die and dying needlessly for a cause.

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    Senior Member Ægir's Avatar
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    This is a truly worrisome trend. The only real plus side is that they tend to be in larger cities and that they cannot be everywhere at once...that though is not much comfort. The fact is if they come for our guns it will be in a time of peace. The reason that is a problem is that if we were in a state of civil war or insurrection you could match up against the likes of those government thugs through the use of guerrilla tactics supplementing your guns with home made "things" and with tenacity. That will not be an option though when the police come cruising up like this as I doubt that many people would want to be the ones who start it.

    The other option then is to infiltrate the police and military with like minded people so that when they get the orders to go get the guns/people they will refuse and they will start a revolt. For sure this is happening with more radicalized elements such as various neo-nazi groups...but sadly it is also happening with radicalized black gangs and now mexican/latino gangs. It seems that for the time being we are really stuck between a rock and a very very hard place.
    For the Ancestors who came before us, the Generations that flow form us, for the Blood that is in our veins.

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    Senior Member Neophyte's Avatar
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    I think that it will be done a bit more subtle than that. It will not be done over night, but rather they will begin to narrow the definition of what weapons that citizens might posses and what reasons that are valid for doing so. My guess is that they will begin by limiting the magazine capacity for rifles, effectively going after assault type rifles without actually banning them.

    "Why would you need a rifle with a detachable magazine for hunting?"

    And so on.

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    Why do you need an assault rifle with a 100 round drum magazine?

    http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2012/04/12/race-war-black-biker-gang-stab-white-trucker-police-do-nothing/

    “The police told me there was really nothing they could do, that it would be almost impossible to identify the knife-wielding suspect. “They indicated to me that they don’t mess with the Outcast gang and their members,”
    Most people think as they are trained to think, and most people make a majority.

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    Senior Member Neophyte's Avatar
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    Yes, but since when did reality have anything to do with it?

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    Senior Member Pless's Avatar
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    Thank you, Godwinson!

    Not only in GB there is a discussion about a handgun-ban. German bureaucracy is one of the most effective worldwide since Prussian legislative:

    In Germany government is making the efforts to decommissioning of the public in small slices/steps:

    A short historical account:

    1856: general free aquirement of weapons possible; no hunting regualtions

    1873: no needlefire-weapons for hunters/sportsmen

    1889: hunting-permit required

    1920: - no full-auto-weapons allowed for private use
    - .22 LR-caliber for sports-shooting only

    1936: Federal Hunting permit mandatory for all hunters, also for the nobility

    1945: seven years of general weapon-ban for the public (Werwolf-Law)

    1953: - general weapon-permit for hunters
    - sporting guns with air-pressure only

    1956: no more regulations in sport-shooting

    Then the restrictive arms laws have been passed in short succession:

    1958: mandatory arms-registration on handguns
    1961: "KriegsWaffenKontrollGesetz" (WarArmsBanningAct)
    1962: ammunition-sales-book with gunmakers
    1967: handgun-ammo-sales only with Federal License (liable to pay costs)
    1969: handgun-ammo purchase by owner only
    1973: ban on hollow-point-ammo for handguns
    1976: - only 2 handguns per hunter (1 trap-hunting; 1 coup de grace)
    - 1st "illegal-arms-amnesty" law (no penalty for trespassers)
    1977: powder-license mandatory (liable to pay costs)
    1980: 2-rounds-magazin-restriction for semi-auto rifles
    1984: same with semi-auto-shotguns
    1985: 2nd "illegal-arms-amnesty" ( 2-years-sentence for trespassers)
    1990: big-bore handgun restriction with 1 gun/sporting discipline
    1995: no more lead-shot for hunters: steel-bismutium-zink only
    1996: handgun ammo-ban for "penetrable bullets" with core (tungsten)
    2000: ammo-limitation to 800 rounds/sort of ammo
    2004: arms-storage-regulation in safes
    2008: separate storage of guns and ammo upon transportation
    2009: introduction of "European Firearms Pass" for transport outside EC
    2011: collectors restriction to 250 guns

    Today they are discussing a handgun-tax of 150.-€uros per gun and year.

    If there are any weapons left in the public after that, handgun- and sporting-weapons are to be stored centrally in "safe-houses" outside the owners perimeters that will invite criminals to "visit" these places.

    By the way, Germany just has quitted the "conscript-system" for the Bundeswehr in order to avoid legal hinderance to shoot on citizens:

    "Conscripts" made their "Oath to the Federal Republic of Germany" under the laws "SoldatenGesetz" (Soldiers Law) and "GrundGesetz" (momentary constitution) thus abiding the legal situation that military personell might shoot civilians.

    Now "Professionals", the new breed is only making their oath to the chancellor or "Defence-Minister" thus enabling the government to circumvent the former legal restrictions to use the military against the public in case of riots.

    This situation should make the public awake and aware of the circumvention of our former "Grundgesetz" granting the Right to Keep Arms in general.

    Regretfully nobody cares because the PC (Political-Correctness-)-society does not see the legal consequences behind these changes in legislative and executive.

    "Wehret den Anfängen" ,

    Pless
    Last edited by Pless; Wednesday, August 8th, 2012 at 01:37 AM. Reason: Dreckpfuhler beseitigt!
    "Ein Volk, das keine Waffen trägt, wird Ketten tragen!"
    (A populace not carrying arms will carry chains)

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    Senior Member Thorolf's Avatar
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    When the law is made my guns and ammo are going in sealed pipes in the woods and i will say they were stolen and stick to it. Depending on the severity of the new laws and how things work with it i will also be in hiding. As others said if ragheads can give our forces troubles so can i. I will create weapons to go against vehicles the same as they do and will take our government issued weapons out of the cold hands of the peope I take on. Ive thought all the things in the original post over many times. There are ways we can take them on.

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    Senior Member Pless's Avatar
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    On the theme of turning-in weapons by force of state ("Plan "A") there should always be a "Plan "B" not visible to the Public Authorities.

    I'd like to recommend having some "old scrap" able to "turn-in" and some 'goodies' not on the record to keep.
    This procedure is keeping the authorities "at bay" and most probably the result is that your name is "ticked off the list". This procedure requires a lot of 'guts' in Europe and good connections europe-wide as there are some very interesting differences in arms-law throughout Europe (i.e. powder to be bought legally in The Netherlands, not so in Germany where tracers are inavailable but not so in Czech Rep. Full auto spare parts like bolts and barrels to be had in Switzerland, shotgun-tracer-shells in 12 Ga. legally in Italy and so on.)

    Very difficult is the situation in GB where the legislative has disarmed the law-abiding subject down to entire nakedness concerning small arms and entirely banned handguns to the general public. But even there a few evasive parts in legislation might be used to complete one's own "collector's items".

    In Europe people tend to praise US-legislation but what my friend from Mönchengladbach, Germany, who emigrated to Lynchburg, Tennessee reported to me on "saturday night specials", "weekend-bans", waiting-time for handgun purchases etc.) seems to me as a pretty rough misinterpretation of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution.
    This right had been to vital to the constitutional fathers that they gave it priority # 2 !

    But what is left from the originally intended grounds for the 2nd Amendment:

    - deterring tyrannical government;
    - repelling invasion;
    - suppressing insurrection;
    - facilitating a natural right of self-defense;
    - participating in law enforcement;
    - enabling the people to organize a militia system.

    Nothing, to make it plain, as all six points have been declared to be handled by Federal Law only. Thus - successively - the US Civil Rights have been CUT entirely in respect of armament just leaving a dregs of the barrel to let the people have some "toys" except for very few states, where full-auto-mode weapons are allowed in private hands (e.g.: Texas, Arizona, Wyoming, Nevada and 21 other).

    Federal Firearms Regulations

    It has been unlawful since 1934 (The National Firearms Act) for civilians to own machine guns without special permission from the U.S. Treasury Department. Machine guns are subject to a $200 tax every time their ownership changes from one federally registered owner to another, and each new weapon is subject to a manufacturing tax when it is made, and it must be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms and Explosives (ATF) in its National Firearms Registry.

    To become a registered owner, a complete FBI background investigation is conducted, checking for any criminal history or tendencies toward violence, and an application must be submitted to the ATF including two sets of fingerprints, a recent photo, a sworn affidavit that transfer of the NFA firearm is of "reasonable necessity," and that sale to and possession of the weapon by the applicant "would be consistent with public safety." The application form also requires the signature of a chief law enforcement officer with jurisdiction in the applicant's residence.

    Since the Firearms Owners' Protection Act of May 19, 1986, ownership of newly manufactured machine guns has been prohibited to civilians. Machine guns which were manufactured prior to the Act's passage are regulated under the National Firearms Act, but those manufactured after the ban cannot ordinarily be sold to or owned by civilians.

    (Sources: talk.politics.guns FAQ, part 2, "FAQ on National Firearms Act Weapons", and from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms,and Explosives (ATF) National Firearms Act FAQ. See also, "The Firearms Owners' Protection Act: A Historical and Legal Perspective" [Hardy, 1986]) )

    Twenty-five states have no further restrictions on civilian ownership of machine guns (some require registration with the state) than what is required by federal law. Other states have either placed further restrictions or outlawed operable machine guns to civilians entirely. For further details see NRA state firearm law summaries.


    Source: http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcfullau.html

    This "red-tape" is a true shame for the fully adult US-citizen and I believe there are more of 'em than anticipated by the average European subject.

    If you don't take care there over the "Big Atlantic Pond" you will have european narrow circumstances.

    My advice: take care,

    Pless

    A NRA-admirer
    "Ein Volk, das keine Waffen trägt, wird Ketten tragen!"
    (A populace not carrying arms will carry chains)

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    Senior Member Balders gate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godwinson View Post
    When They Come For Your Guns .... You Will Turn Them Over

    "When they come for my gun, they will have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands," is a common refrain I often hear from the Neo-Cons when there is a threat, credible or otherwise, that the US government is going to take their firearms.

    And, when I hear this crazy talk, I agree with them openly. "You are right. They will pry your gun from your cold dead hands," which I often follow with the question, "And where will that leave you except face down in a pool of your own blood the middle of the street, just another dead fool resisting the State?"

    This is not a question they are comfortable with, if only because the intent of their saber-rattling was to imply they would fight to keep their weapons, and win.

    Nice fantasy. It’s not happening.

    If the federal government decides to disarm the public, and one of these (see photo below) rolls down your street after a not-so-subtle request that you kindly turn over your firearms and ammunition "for the common good," it will be nothing less than suicide by cop to do anything other than what you are told.


    The militarization of US police forces is ongoing and escalating. Many cities and towns now own tanks, armed personnel carriers, even attack helicopters, and almost all are outfitted with military weapons not available to the general public.


    And, it is not just your hometown cops who are getting new boy-toys. The military itself is buying up weaponry not just for use in the current or next scheduled war, but to deal with the likes of you, citizens who don't seem to understand that the Bill of Rights has been overruled, and that specifically includes, but is not limited to, the right to protest and engage in civil disobedience.

    Also ignored (as if it didn't even exist) is the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 which generally bars the military from law enforcement activities within the United States.

    According to Public Intelligence:

    "...for the last two years, the President’s Budget Submissions for the Department of Defense have included purchases of a significant amount of combat equipment, including armored vehicles, helicopters and even artillery, under an obscure section of the FY2008 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for the purposes of “homeland defense missions, domestic emergency responses, and providing military support to civil authorities.” Items purchased under the section include combat vehicles, tanks, helicopters, artillery, mortar systems, missiles, small arms and communications equipment. Justifications for the budget items indicate that many of the purchases are part of routine resupply and maintenance, yet in each case the procurement is cited as being “necessary for use by the active and reserve components of the Armed Forces for homeland defense missions, domestic emergency responses, and providing military support to civil authorities” under section 1815 of the FY 2008 NDAA." (Emphasis supplied.)

    And, they are not just arming cops and weekend warriors for domestic purposes. Active duty Marines are now being trained for law enforcement operations all over the world (of which the US remains a part) specifically to deal with civil uprisings, and the US government knows that civil uprisings are coming to a town near you just as soon as the fantasy of a healing economy is shattered, the US dollar fails, and unemployment goes to 30%+ in real numbers.


    And, to you tough-talking Neo-Cons with your AR-15 rifles and a few thousand rounds of ammo, here is reality: they will take your guns, and no, all your Second Amendment bluster aside, you are not going to do anything about it. You are not going to take on a platoon of Marines with state of the art automatic weapons and the best body armor you cannot buy protected by armed personnel carriers and attack helicopters unless you choose to die that day -- for nothing.

    You will either be in the country or out, and if you are in, you will stay in and you will comply.

    That is your choice ... for the moment.

    -------------------------------------

    http://www.dollarvigilante.com/blog/...them-over.html
    So you mean to tell me most military men will turn on their own family, friends and relatives. Most american military people come from backgrounds where their families hunt and have a high opinion of their second admendment rights. If anything the American joker government will hire outside sources to control and rule the American people. I see United Nation troops coming over to control the American public. Problem for these UN forces is the American people know their backyards like the back of their hands. Try controlling 3000 miles from one end of the continent to another and 1500 miles from Mexico to Canada. Good Luck!!!!!!!

    Maybe a percentage of Americans will turn on their own countrymen to disarm them but what about the other half. This would make for a massive campaign of blood and be the mother of all civil wars. Of course cities are easy for these armored vehicles, but try controlling the rest of rural america which accounts for at least 97% of the land mass. Again good luck..

    Its funny that the vietnamese, an army of men who wore pajamas and only ate a little fish and rice every day, defeated the industrial military complex which is the USA. And the wars in iraq and Afghanistan, insurgents are sure giving the Americans and fellow allies a very hard time.

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