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Thread: Dark-Haired German And English Nobility?

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    Post Dark-Haired German And English Nobility?

    I was looking in Dodona archives and i found this:

    Dark-Haired English Aristocracy?
    Charles E. Woodruff, in Expansion of Races, 1909, Chapter VIII reports the results of a study by Havelock Ellis of portraits of the National Portrait Gallery in London. An index is caluclated for the relevant prevalence of blonds and brunets for different occupational classes, by the formula 100*BLONDS/BRUNETS. If blonds and brunets were equally represented, then the index would have a value of 100.

    There is a range of variation from 233 (blonds 2.33x the frequency of brunets) for Political Reformers and Agitators, to 33 (brunets 3.03x the frequency of blonds) for Actors and Actresses.

    The null hypothesis in this case would be that blonds and brunets occur at the frequency found in the general population. Coon, in Races of Europe notes that blonds are more important than brunets in the British Isles. It is difficult to assess the meaning of these terms without a standard scale.

    The 95% confidence interval for brunets among Political Reformers for the binomial distribution is (expressed as % blonds) [45.7, 88.1]. For Actors and Actresses it is [7.3, 52.4]. These may be statistically significant depending on the actual percentage of blonds in the British Isles.

    The largest occupational class in this study is for the Hereditary Aristocracy, with 149 samples. The index of blondness is 82, i.e., 45% blonds. The confidence interval is [36.8, 53.3].

    Brunets may indeed be over-represented in the English aristocracy. The sample is hardly sufficient to make a case for it though. One can safely conclude though that the idea that blonds are more than the brunets among aristocrats is false.





    The Dark-Haired Germanic Nobility
    [Houston Stewart Chamberlain was a proponent of the superiority of the Teutons. Frank H. Hankins deals with him extensively in his book, not failing to note how Chamberlain had to part company with other Blondists, admitting that the supposed prevalence of blondism in the Germanic aristocracy was actually false: dark hair was most common.]

    Frank H. Hankins

    The Racial Basis of Civilization : A critique of the Nordic doctrine, New York & London, Alfred A. Knopf, 1931, p. 72

    But there are other "limitations". Virchow had made much of the doctrine dear to the heart of all Blondists from Gobineau to Madison Grant, that the aristocracy of Europe was everywhere of the tall fair-haired type. Chamberlain finds this doctrine out of harmony with the facts. He accused Virchow of being blinded by political prejudice in failing to note "the prevalence of dark color among the members of the most genuine old Germanic nobility. In England this is quite striking. Tall, spare-built figures, long skulls, long countenances ... genealogies which go back to the Norman period, in short, genuine Teutons in physique and history - but black hair." He notes the same in Germany among the old nobility. He finds the poets frequently speak of dark hair as a characteristic of the nobility even in the north of Germany. Indeed, the inhabitants of the German Tyrol, who have been declared to "represent the true type of the primeval Teuton," have dark or black hair. In short, "the most genuine sons of this (Teutonic) race may be black-haired

    Any truth in these claims?

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    Post Re: Dark-Haired German And English Nobility?

    Someone, please put me out of my misery if I am wrong BUT, as I recall, the Nazis and others before them in Germany and Austria were proponents of Aryan Man, not necessarily blonds. The idea of Anyans took off with Blavatsky and was adopted by List and so came to the Nazis. Aryans were pure Europeans, endowed with special psychic abilities according to this train of thought. The aristocracy was said to have the strongest strain of Aryan blood. It was only with the ascendence of anthropology and Germanic mythology (Sigurd, Nibelungenlied, Beowulf, Eddas and Sagas) that the link between the "Aryans" and the "Nordics" or Germanic Race was made. So for the followers of Blavatsky, brown haired aristocrats was just fine.

    Coon talks about the Corded influence on the aristocracy of the Polish people and perhaps this idea of Corded influence also extends to the German aristocracy.

    Then, of course, there is the fact that the English aristocracy was Norman French and may have picked up brunette pigmentation in France. We all know that the House of Windsor was originally German and this family along with the other royal families of Europe were inbred. In other words, a small gene pool of kings, queens, and potential mates. Even if blonds and brunettes were at one time in equal numbers, with such a small gene pool of mates, genetic drift or the founder effect would surely have cut down variability.

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    Post Re: Dark-Haired German And English Nobility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Solar Wolff
    Coon talks about the Corded influence on the aristocracy of the Polish people and perhaps this idea of Corded influence also extends to the German aristocracy.
    From what i noticed, german nobility is mainly dinarid.

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    Post Dark-haired Germanic Nobility?

    Dark-haired Germanic nobility?
    RM picked up this theme from Greek CompSci student "Dienekes Pontikos", who some time ago decided (apparently based on a fictional movie he saw) that northern European aristocrats have dark hair and therefore he has something in common with them. Pontikos clings to this idea and uncritically appeals to the authority of H.S. Chamberlain to support his view. Here, Karl Earlson responds:

    RM states: "even the old Germanic nobility was predominantly dark-haired." Here, he is ultimately citing Chamberlain, via Hankins, via Pontikos:

    http://www.dienekes.com/blog/archives/000157.html

    The text in question, concerning "Fair Hair", can be found in Chamberlain's "Foundations of the Nineteenth Century", Vol. I, pp. 522-526:

    http://www.hschamberlain.net/grundla..._chapter6.html

    But there is nothing to any of this. I'll pick it apart just to show how empty these statements are, and reveal how nothing is proven.

    [1] Chamberlain states: "Eckermann was struck by the brown eyes of Wellington."

    But Wellington WASN'T brown-eyed! Please read this quote, describing Wellington's appearance in 1814:


    "He was just forty-five, in the pride of manhood: lean, springy, his hair still brown, his eyes whether frozen over or sparkling as blue as ever, [...] and his profile impressively Roman."
    Lady Elizabeth Longford, Wellington: The Years of the Sword (London: Weidenfeld & Nicolson, 1972), p. 415.

    Lady Longford was not only a descendant of Wellington's, but her biography of the Duke is considered to be a standard work on the subject. Incidentally, German anthropologists (e.g. Guenther and Fischer) routinely classified Wellington as a Nordic type.

    [2] Chamberlain states: "poets from the extreme north of Germany pretty frequently speak of dark hair as a characteristic feature not only of the nobility but also of the people".

    But the examples he provides, Theodor Storm's "Hans und Heinz Kirch", as well as the works of Goethe, are VERY late in composition (18th & 19th Century works). Similarly, the Storm examples he gives decribe "defiant Germanic seamen" and "another daring figure, Hasselfritz"; in other words, COMMON people of recent times, not the "old Germanic nobility". Chamberlain goes on to state that "those genuine Teutons therefore resemble Achilles with his 'brown hair'." But Achilles was depicted by the ancient Hellenic authors as yellow-, red-, and even golden-haired! See Sieglin (1935) for the details about this. [Sieglin, W. (1935) Die blonden Haare der indogermanischen Völker des Altertums (Munich: J. F. Lehmanns Verlag).] Equally, Chamberlain relies on anonymous authority when he says: "How often, too, in the folksongs do 'dark brown eyes' occur!" No examples are cited, so the statement lacks any real value. In direct contrast to this, Biehahn (1964) has collected a range of descriptions from various German poets, which talk approvingly of blond hair and blue eyes, praising such features as beautiful, truly Germanic, heroic characteristics, etc. Indeed, Biehahn even refers to a "cult of blondness" in German literature.

    Biehahn, E. (1964) "Blondheit und Blondheitskult in der deutschen Literatur." Archiv für Kulturgeschichte, 46, 309-333.

    [3] Chamberlain states that the predominant type "in German Tyrol, whose inhabitants Henke says 'represent the true type of the primeval Teuton'", for the most part, have "dark and often black hair".

    However, this is wrong on several points. The ancient Germanics were fair-haired and long-headed. On the contrary, the modern Tyroleans are largely dark-haired and broad-headed. This question is discussed and proved at length in Schwidetzky (1979). Even Chamberlain acknowledges this in his next section, titled "The Shape of the Skull". He mentions that "Germanic peoples, wherever they have not crossed with others or only to a small extent, as in the north, are long-skulled and fair" and in contrast to this, the "Un-Germanic, short-skulled, dark type" reveals that "in these phenomena we see the effects of the infiltration of an Un-Germanic race, a race which does not belong at all to the Indo-European circle, but to the raceless chaos". I wouldn't go as far as Chamberlain in his polemic, but the point is made nonetheless.

    Schwidetzky, I. (1979) "Rassengeschichte von Deutschland." I. Schwidetzky [ed.], Rassengeschichte der Menschheit, 7. Lieferung. Europa V: Schweiz, Deutschland, Belgien und Luxemburg, Niederlande (Munich: R. Oldenbourg Verlag), 45-101.

    [4] Chamberlain mentions several times the so-called "Moltke type (or, as the English say, the Wellington type)", to which he attributes dark hair. Wellington has already been dealt with above. As for Moltke, he was fair-complexioned, and various German physical anthropologists (Guenther, von Eickstedt, etc.), classified him as Nordic. See the picture of Moltke here (Fig. 300):

    http://www.white-history.com/earlson...eoehchap10.htm

    [5] Chamberlain refers to: "the prevalence of dark colour among the members of the most genuine old Germanic nobility." Once again, this is simply an opinion, and since no evidence is adduced in its favour, none is needed to refute it. Chamberlain also claims that: "In England this is quite striking." However, Chamberlain was not a professional physical anthropologist, and in the opinion of a genuine anthropologist, namely Coon:

    "In general, differences in social level and in occupation reflect racial differences, which show themselves to a certain extent in pigmentation. The upper social strata, being on the whole blonder, follow the pigment pattern of the Saxons, Danes, and Normans. This differentiation may well have been even stronger in the Middle Ages, when social lines were more strictly and overtly drawn than today. The Englishman who travels abroad and is seen by foreigners, and the one whose photograph frequently appears in the London Illustrated News, is more likely to be blond than the general run of his more obscure compatriots who stay at home, and whose faces are publicly depicted only when they have committed crimes."

    http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/chapter-X3.htm

    Wurm (1993) has collated a list of the earliest descriptions of the highest Germanic nobility, and from these he has compiled a composite portrait of the typical German nobleman. The nobles are described as being tall and athletic in form, with handsome facial features, bright and flashing eyes, a fair or florid complexion, and fair hair and beard. Wurm mentions specific references to white-blond, golden-blond and reddish-blond hair colours, and only one (possible) brown-haired individual. Wurm concludes by noting that the Germanic nobility belonged to the tall, muscular, long-headed, sharply-profiled, Nordic-Germanic racial type of the Reihengräber.

    [Wurm, H. (1993) "Menschentyp und Macht im Früh- und beginnenden Hochmittelalter (750 bis 1000 n. Chr.)." Würzburger medizinhistorische Mitteilungen, 11, 235-260.]

    One must always bear in mind the fact that Chamberlain was in many senses a polemicist: all Germans are equally Germanic, both blond and brunet, Celts and Slavs are Germanic, Jesus was an Aryan, so Christianity is also Germanic, etc. His work undoubtably contains much of value, but his opinions must always be carefully sifted, and not accepted at face value. Finally, note this quote by Chamberlain, on the early Germanen:

    "the great radiant heavenly eyes, the golden hair, the gigantic stature, the symmetrical muscular development, the lengthened skull (which an ever-active brain, tortured by longing, had changed from the round lines of animal contentedness and extended towards the front), the lofty countenance, required by an elevated spiritual life as the seat of its expression". [p. 535]

    http://www.hschamberlain.net/grundla..._chapter6.html

    [ Source ]

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    Post Re: Dark-haired Germanic Nobility?

    Wasn't this one reason that Blavatsky's "Aryan" designation gained acceptance? Not all Aryans were blond, according to Blavatsky, but they all traced their ancestry to some common point and held in common certain psychic qualities as well as moral ones. According to this theory, the strongest elements of the Aryan race were the nobility.

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    Post Re: Dark-haired Germanic Nobility?

    Not sure About German Nobility But I know Russian Royalty who were pretty Much Blood relatives to german royalty Were not of the Lightest Hair Collor

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    Re: Dark-haired Germanic Nobility?

    Gobineau said that the French nobility is characteristically Nordic in contrast to the general population.

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    Re: Dark-haired Germanic Nobility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tennyson View Post
    Gobineau said that the French nobility is characteristically Nordic in contrast to the general population.

    I think Coon made the point that Polish nobility was mostly Corded. Being Corded usually means light brown hair and blue eyes but long head, big chin, high forehead, square, low orbits. To many, this means Nordic in a vague, folk sense. This type would be considered "more Nordic" in the French sense as they would probably resemble the Norse-French Normans. There is no doubt that the Normans would be significantly more Nordic than the local population in Brittany. With these examples, what else could Gobineau say?

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    Re: Dark-haired Germanic Nobility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tennyson View Post
    Gobineau said that the French nobility is characteristically Nordic in contrast to the general population.
    Well Gobineau is not quite one of those "anthropologists" to be taken seriously. However this claim I might believe...

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    Re: Dark-haired Germanic Nobility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksander D. G View Post
    Not sure About German Nobility But I know Russian Royalty who were pretty Much Blood relatives to german royalty Were not of the Lightest Hair Collor

    Aleksandr III Aleksandrovich von Holstein Gottorp er... I mean 'Romanov'
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Solar Wolff View Post
    I think Coon made the point that Polish nobility was mostly Corded.
    Szlachta = Scythians.
    There is no doubt that the Normans would be significantly more Nordic than the local population in Brittany.
    Really? The Normans would immediately have taken Gaullish wives, whereas the Britons leaving for Armorica would probably not have wished to leave their womenfolk to the naughty Saxon invaders. Anyway, see the photos put up by our Breton member Nominoe =
    http://forums.skadi.net/showpost.php...&postcount=508
    Maybe it's more a question of KN vs HN?

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