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Thread: Letís Draft Our Kids

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    Quote Originally Posted by OnePercent View Post
    Interestingly, there is a strong parallel here with the end of the Roman republic. Much like the modern US, during the late Republic era Rome was forced to transition to a professional military in order to defend and expand their conquests because conscription led to political backlash and social instability among the Roman citizenry. Ultimately, the transition to a professional army resulted in the end of the Republic when the army became more interested in serving its own interests over those of the people of Rome.
    And the average citizens became terrified of the army as well. After doing a lot of college study on the reign of the Emperor Trajan, one his main goals seems to have been to restore faith in the army as true servants of Rome, rather than the tools of whoever has power.

    It makes me wonder about a drafted army vs a professional one, probably worth a thread of its own.

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    Although I agree with the notion of national service in theory I don't agree with making our children fight for the bourgeois interests of our current reigning governments. There is no honour in waging a war for egalitarianism for democracy for capitalism. Modern soldiery doesn't even vaguely resemble that of the past.

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    I think the advantage of a draft is that it makes people oppose the army being put to use to serve "the bourgeois interests of our current reigning governments", paid professionals just doing their job will do that, the kids from down the road will deeply resent being told to die for things that are not in their interests and so will their friends and family.

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    Except that this suggestion does not include deploying draftees overseas to do the fighting, but letting them do manual jobs at the forts back home or letting them act as chauffeurs.

    These conscripts would not be deployed but could perform tasks currently outsourced at great cost to the Pentagon: paperwork, painting barracks, mowing lawns, driving generals around, and generally doing lower-skills tasks so professional soldiers don’t have to.
    The sense of honor is of so fine and delicate a nature that
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    Yeah that's got advantages (increased cohesion and discipline in the youth) and significant disadvantages (forcing people to work for a state that does not actually have their interests at heart).

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    Quote Originally Posted by ablutive View Post
    Yeah that's got advantages (increased cohesion and discipline in the youth) and significant disadvantages (forcing people to work for a state that does not actually have their interests at heart).
    But all that discipline would go to a negative purpose; fighting wars for our enemy, for the profit of our enemy. Our people would be going to war to do Israel's dirty work and nothing else, and you can get that sort of discipline elsewhere; for example, taking a martial art or learning another sport. At least with that, your life is not in danger and you are not becoming property of the government, which is how they view their own soldiers.
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    The problem with the draft system America had during the Vietnam war seemed to be that the rich kids could enroll in college and get defferals until they were off the hook. Since higher education in the US is a question of wealth and connections alot of times, then this system contained within it a rather conspicious loophole that the political families could use to keep their kids safe from being sent to Vietnam. If the kids of the politicians voting for war, or the kids of the people who fund the politicians can stay back home, then the draft doesn't really fulfill its purpose of shared sacrifice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodericus View Post
    It makes me wonder about a drafted army vs a professional one, probably worth a thread of its own.
    Well, ultimately a professional army really has the same motivations as any other group of mercenaries. History is littered with the corpses of nation-states who attempted to rely on mercenaries for national defense. Good examples are the Romano-British who hired their own Angles and Saxon conquerors and the Egyptian Cailphate who were subjugated by their own slave-army of Mamluks in the 13th century.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrioten View Post
    The problem with the draft system America had during the Vietnam war seemed to be that the rich kids could enroll in college and get defferals until they were off the hook. Since higher education in the US is a question of wealth and connections alot of times, then this system contained within it a rather conspicious loophole that the political families could use to keep their kids safe from being sent to Vietnam. If the kids of the politicians voting for war, or the kids of the people who fund the politicians can stay back home, then the draft doesn't really fulfill its purpose of shared sacrifice.
    This has been a long running problem in the American draft system. Even during our civil war it was possible for rich northerners to pay a tax and avoid the draft. Because of this, toward the end of the war the vast majority of Northern recruits were Irish immigrants fleeing the potato famine who were literally conscripted as they stepped off the boats in places like New York and Boston.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vordringende View Post
    Although I agree with the notion of national service in theory I don't agree with making our children fight for the bourgeois interests of our current reigning governments. There is no honour in waging a war for egalitarianism for democracy for capitalism..
    How is waging a war for something like democracy or capitalism any different from waging a war for a monarch considering that 17th and 18th Century monarch regularly went to war (for example for the Hapsburgs) possessions as far wide off as Naples and Spain?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredericus Rex View Post
    How is waging a war for something like democracy or capitalism any different from waging a war for a monarch considering that 17th and 18th Century monarch regularly went to war (for example for the Hapsburgs) possessions as far wide off as Naples and Spain?
    True. People have waged wars for material interests for centuries and it wasn't my intention to suggest our current governments were the only ones guilty of this. My intention was to highlight the distinction between waging war for material interests and waging war for a higher purpose be it divine or avenging a wrong or the struggle to preserve one's people. Evola's essays on the metaphysics of war highlight the distinction between what makes a warrior and what makes a soldier. Ernst JŁnger was perhaps the perfect German military man and exemplified in every way the warrior spirit and indeed the spirit of Germany.

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