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Thread: How Far Back Does Ancestry Matter?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todesritter View Post
    Exactly, there can be all sorts of holes or inaccuracies in the classic ancestry/family history through no fault or intentional deception sometimes of the ancestors and definately never a dishonor for the descendants living in the present for whom the inaccuracy is unknown.

    Now that genetic testing is available though, the problematic unknown accuracy of family ancestry can be avoided, at least for racial & ethnic questions.
    It is absolutely right. I red somwhere that in nowadays US the 10% of children are not from the own father. A study say that in the US are 300'000 parental tesing in a year and 28% of this sign a different father. In Africa it is more higher. Jared Diamond wrote in The Third Chimpnazee that a scientist in 1940 saw that the 10% of childrens had different father and he didn't dare to speak about it in publicity.

    Well, the genetic testing is a part of the whole thing as the typological classification of the individual and own kinship is useful and necessary too.



    Quote Originally Posted by Thusnelda View Post
    The biggest "anomaly" in my ancestry tree is that I have a Swedish male great-great....-grandfather back in the times of the Thirty Years War which lasted from 1618 until 1648. That´s interesting in many ways because it must have been a Swedish soldier who went to Bavaria at that time, everything else would lack on a logical explanation. How that worked out with the different confessions and during wartime remains a complete mystery.
    Probably it happened around 1632-34 when the swedish troops were penetrated in Bavaria. Well, I think that it was not necessary that your forefather stayed there. Maybe he went back to Sweden or he was killed at Nördlingen or other battles.

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    The number of ancestors doubles each generation, so it's impossible to keep track of them all after a point. What really matters is your connection to your ancestors. If you feel a profound connection with them instead of just head counting them, that's a start. Obviously, if you know you have a non Germanic ancestor, then that moots the rest, but I believe this can be felt. Nobody here then could possibly be part non-Germanic in my opinion, because they wouldn't have the innate need to gather with their own.

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    Account Inactive Thunir's Avatar
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    I myself have non-Germanic blood, which is listed in my ancestry. I nevertheless feel deeply connected to my Germanic component and base my ethnic self-conception on it; I do not believe for a moment that the distant non-Germanic elements in my ancestry in any way cancel out or lessen my right to spiritual, cultural and indeed ethnic self-identification as Germanic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olavssønn View Post
    This does actually to some degree apply to Europeans as well. Southern Europeans do often have a minor African influence, a lot of Eastern Europeans and Northern Europeans have some North Asian (or Siberian) genetic influence (in Scandinavians probably due to contact with the Saami, who are predominantly European genetically speaking, but have a considerable Siberian influence - probably around 10% and higher) etc.
    As a honest person, I shall readily admit that this to some degree also applies to myself. I did for a while think I was 100% Europid, getting back such results from 23andMe's analysis and dr. Doug McDonald. However, the more detailed results from Dodecad told another story, and it seems I might actually have between 1-2% non-Europid influence, Siberian (the Norwegian average in Dodecad K12b is 1%), if Dodecad's analysis have got it correct. Absolutely nothing to be proud of whatsoever, but the facts do not care about our feelings, unfortunately. As any ethnically or racially aware person, I would prefer to be 100% Europid genetically, but I just have to accept that I have this small influence from Siberia. It does not change either my concern for my people, or my identity in an ethnic sense.
    In a racially aware scenario, I'm in favor of positive eugenics by supporting the best couples to have more children than others, for example.
    If you have Scandinavian ancestry, such as Norwegian or Swedish, having a little Siberian is very possible, but I don't think Europeans have to worry about it to the extent Americans do.

    I always thought there were a lot of inaccuracies going on with Dr. Mcdonald. The results I got from him were just weird and didn't match up with the ones I got on Dodecad. I was not getting much evidence for the trace of Middle Eastern Mcdonald said I was showing. My African admixture results are just slightly higher than most people's on Dodecad and Eurogenes but that doesn't necessarily point to a slave ancestor in the woodpile, since perfectly white people in England for example can show that amount. Who knows, maybe there is some heeb very far back on my Polish side, which is quite possible for anyone with Polish ancestry but the church records didn't suggest so when I looked at them. My genetic results were pretty clear, but not as clear as I expected. When they're doing this kind of thing, most people get some suprises, so I was kind of expecting something like that anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adalheid View Post
    I have done enough research to this point where I know for a fact who my relations are on all branches dating back 300 years, at minimum. My great, great, great grandfather from Norway's branch disappeared completely for me, and I have discovered some French on my English father's side five generations ago.

    The fact that some of you are saying that you'd question someone's race after finding out some 13 generations or roughly 400 years ago there was a non-European in the family frightens me. I'm all about racial purity, but at what point are we completely setting ourselves up for failure.

    Just because 1 person in 8192 ancestors chose an unsavory partner doesn't make you a non-Germanic person.

    Do you know what works out to? 0.0001% of one's lineage that is non-European 13 generations back.

    Give me a break. We can't even allow ourselves a tenth of tenth of a single percent before we start casting each other off as mixed?

    This might make me unpopular, but I would have no issue whatsoever marrying and having children with someone who has 8191 amazing ancestors....someone who is 99.9999% Swedish, or German or what have you.

    It's not even a a quarter of a single percent!

    That's just my opinion.
    Well, it kind of depends on what it is. I wouldn't consider them non-Germanic, that's not what I said, I just wouldn't consider them PURE Germanic. I wouldn't consider them "mixed" race or anything because that denotes that it is affecting their appearance which, at that amount would most definitely not. I just think there is a type of person who should be VERY careful who they marry, that's all. If all the people who are only Germanic or Northern European since pretty much the beginning of everything become extinct, I think the thought of our culture ever prevailing is a joke. I like to be objective, and call things what they are. I don't want to offend someone, but when people say they're 100% Germanic and they're technically not it doesn't make a lick of sense to me, that's all. I'm probably not 100% Germanic till the beginning of time (lol) and it doesn't offend me.
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    Not to undermine the importance of ancestry but I believe that without considerable engagement with one's forefathers with one's forefathers' weltanschauung and its maintenance no amount of this or that blood is going to make you more or less Germanic than others. I believe race is a metaphysical as well as a biological component of our make-up. I'm not saying that one might transcend or subvert their race only that too much emphasis on biology is missing the point. Those whose treachery and idiocy and degeneracy function in opposition to our struggle to preserve our people are not German no matter how pure their blood how pure their biology because their geist is not German.

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    Someone having distant non-Germanic (but still European) ancestry is ok to me. It's pretty common in the U.S to be all white, but just different white ethnicites.

    I don't really mind someone in the U.S to have a small amount of indian in them. If their great-great-great etc grandparent was an indian, I think that's ok because not only is it SO diluted, it's incredibly common. In my experience at least, it's difficult to find someone who doesn't have a tiny bit if indian in them especially if their family has been here for a few hundred years. It's usually so small it doesn't even count when it comes to joining a tribe. To me, having an indian ancestor from a few generations back doesn't make you mixed race.

    Although if it was black or something it would bug me. I don't know why indian doesn't bother me.


    I would like to get a DNA test because I'd like to know for sure what's in me.
    Proud to be Germanic.

    Even though my ancestry is English, Germany is my favorite country.

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    Senior Member Todesritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunir View Post
    I myself have non-Germanic blood, which is listed in my ancestry. I nevertheless feel deeply connected to my Germanic component and base my ethnic self-conception on it; I do not believe for a moment that the distant non-Germanic elements in my ancestry in any way cancel out or lessen my right to spiritual, cultural and indeed ethnic self-identification as Germanic.
    I don't know the specifics beyond what you've listed, BUT also something to consider, there are many different kinds of Italian. If your Italian ancestor were from Sicily for instance that might have more gravity in terms of pulling your phenotype out of alignment with ideal or even typical Germanic biological & appearance parameters. However, particularly in the north, there are many 'Italians' who are in essence the fruit of X-generations of culturally brainwashed Germans/Germanic or Celtic blood, in whole or in part. Also there are strong indications that the original Italic peninsula inhabitants from Roman times or before we're much fairer, and some of this stock has survived relatively unmixed. So if your Italian ancestry were any of this later type and/or your phenotype, your genetic expression of your blood ancestry is consistent with a typical northerner, I certainly would not feel myself any lesser were I in your shoes.

    Incidentally, I've seen this type of potential concern pop up over individuals with "Slavic" ancestors, and my take is similar. Not all Ukrainians or Poles are created equal, while some are indeed definately 'exotic' biologically to some significant level, others are consistent biologically with Germans I've met, and likewise with the Italians, some small but significant minority of their modern populations are either directly descended from Germanic populations or at least so purely descended from the pre-mixed original fairer old Slavic folk as to be difficult to distinguish from other nordic/'nordish' people.

    In this case I'd feel rather stupid & petty if I chose to regard a friend with one blond, blue eyed "Ukrainian" great-grandmother with the maiden name of 'Löwe' as though he or she were somehow lesser than myself.

    In the end, if you are derived from ancestry so exotic as to make you foreign eugenically, and you are culturally Germanic, I don't think having minor ancestry from a neighboring country but outside the modern boundaries of what is considered Germanic should cause folks to 'tar & feather' you.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todesritter View Post
    Incidentally, I've seen this type of potential concern pop up over individuals with "Slavic" ancestors, and my take is similar. Not all Ukrainians or Poles are created equal, while some are indeed definately 'exotic' biologically to some significant level, others are consistent biologically with Germans I've met, and likewise with the Italians, some small but significant minority of their modern populations are either directly descended from Germanic populations or at least so purely descended from the pre-mixed original fairer old Slavic folk as to be difficult to distinguish from other nordic/'nordish' people.
    Well, the origin of the Slavics are quite interresting as the earliest are described by Slavic and non-Slavic authors as tall, blond, long- and narrow-headed ones. However these ones later mixed with the local Cromagnid and incomer Mongolid ones in East-Europe, but don't all of them. This is the reason why some Slavic one looks like a Ancient Greek/Germanic God and why some otherone looks like a Tatar raider. But note, this Germanic-like ones are not necessary to have any Germanic ancestor like as the Spanish, Italien individuals with lighter pigmentation and Nordid or Cromagnid traits might be rather the descendants of the original uxmixed inhabitans or the Celts, Latins than the handful Germanic conquerors.

    F.e. Konstantin Vasilyev the great russian painter truly looked like Nordid without any Asian admixture. (Well, he had some Cromagnid feature obiviously.) Side by side the Russian or other Slavic individuals sometimes upload laughable strongly Cromagnid- or Mongolid influenced ones as "East-Nordid".




  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbite View Post
    Someone having distant non-Germanic (but still European) ancestry is ok to me. It's pretty common in the U.S to be all white, but just different white ethnicites.

    I don't really mind someone in the U.S to have a small amount of indian in them. If their great-great-great etc grandparent was an indian, I think that's ok because not only is it SO diluted, it's incredibly common. In my experience at least, it's difficult to find someone who doesn't have a tiny bit if indian in them especially if their family has been here for a few hundred years. It's usually so small it doesn't even count when it comes to joining a tribe. To me, having an indian ancestor from a few generations back doesn't make you mixed race.

    Although if it was black or something it would bug me. I don't know why indian doesn't bother me.


    I would like to get a DNA test because I'd like to know for sure what's in me.
    I don't think it's nearly as common as you make it out to be. It depends on the amount of ancestry you have that is "old old" American. The more you have of this, the more your odds go up. If you're like me and have some Ellis island ancestors, some fairly recent ancestors, some before it was only the colonies, as well as old American it's not as likely.

    I just think it sounds silly to make an exception for Indian blood simply because it's common. What if someone said, I'm a little bit Jew am I still pure Germanic? Indians are much farther from Germanics in genetic similarity than part caucasoid jews are. What if having a little bit of Jewish blood became the common admixture to brag about? That wouldn't go over too well on here.
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