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Thread: On the Legendary German Morality

  1. #31
    Senior Member Neophyte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    Interesting, I didn't know the Ostrogoths adopted Arius. I agree that chivalry is something that Germans should strive for, but it's a moral code that only fits into a military context. Please define for me exactly what you mean by chivalry, because what I was taught to be chivalry literally cannot be applied to civilians. Like Bushido.
    As I understand it the Goths accepted Arianism Christianity because it allowed them to pass as Christians, which was of political importance, while still setting them apart from the general Catholic population, something that was also politically important. Compare, if you want to, to the Khazar's adoption of Judaism.

    That is also a moral lesson, to keep ourselves distinct from other peoples.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Jens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vindefense View Post
    From what you are saying, it would seem that morality to Germans is more sentimental and appearance oriented, ie. the act is honored for its own sake and not it’s practicality, where the American is more pragmatic. Is that right?
    Well, the practicality is important as well. It's not like we enjoy doing it, we just feel like anything less deserves scorn and contempt. It's really not a feel good thing.
    Apfelstrudel mit Vanillesoße, yeah I said it, what are you gonna do?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neophyte View Post
    As I understand it the Goths accepted Arianism Christianity because it allowed them to pass as Christians, which was of political importance, while still setting them apart from the general Catholic population, something that was also politically important. Compare, if you want to, to the Khazar's adoption of Judaism.

    That is also a moral lesson, to keep ourselves distinct from other peoples.
    Arian Christianity makes me laugh. It seems so 'cheap', a far too easy way for people to call themselves Christian, if you know what I mean. Germanic Arian Christians seem to have basically done this: replace Baldur with Jesus and Odin/Thor with Yahweh. I read they viewed Jesus as a warrior-hero rather than a carpenter preaching forgiveness.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    As your quote itself and all evidence suggests, chivalry is a feature of the christian knighthood.
    This doesn't mean that chivalry equals Christianity. My quote mentioned a value that was in opposition to Christianity, so I don't quite understand why you are shifting the topic towards Christianity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    Even if it did, the values of chivalry were purely for men of one, very narrow, level of society, and even within that group, the overwhelming majority of even that small group completely ignored it. By not applying at all to women, and not applying to the overwhelming majority of men either, and not having any actual Germanic origin that anyone has pointed out other than conjecture, I don't see how I could possibly adopt it as a Germanic virtue.
    Virtues are ideals and ideals are not affected by numbers. An ideal isn't even affected by the impossibility of ever realizing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    These need to be things that are ingrained in Germanic culture, visible at all levels of society. Cultural values are things that are so imbedded in you that you consider them so self-evident that you can't remember ever learning them. Things you take for granted as being that way because they just are. It should be part of the cultural subconscious.
    So are eating and going to the toilet cultural values?

  5. #35
    Senior Member Jens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernhard View Post
    Virtues are ideals and ideals are not affected by numbers. An ideal isn't even affected by the impossibility of ever realizing it.
    And ideal isn't necessarily part of our morality. Not being chivalrous was not immoral, it was just plain normal for pretty much everyone in German society. We are observing what actually is German morality, not what we may imagine it should be, or imagined in the past.

    So are eating and going to the toilet cultural values?
    Just biological functions. Though a sense of hygiene involved in either activity could be.
    Apfelstrudel mit Vanillesoße, yeah I said it, what are you gonna do?

  6. #36
    Senior Member Svanhild's Avatar
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    You could add to your list: Business before pleasure. Erst die Pflicht, dann das Vergnügen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernhard View Post
    This doesn't mean that chivalry equals Christianity. My quote mentioned a value that was in opposition to Christianity, so I don't quite understand why you are shifting the topic towards Christianity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    And ideal isn't necessarily part of our morality. Not being chivalrous was not immoral, it was just plain normal for pretty much everyone in German society. We are observing what actually is German morality, not what we may imagine it should be, or imagined in the past.
    What does it matter if Chivalry was defined in the Christian era? If it wasn't a Germanic creation then explain why it didn't arise in any other Christian countries?

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    Senior Member Jens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodericus View Post
    What does it matter if Chivalry was defined in the Christian era? If it wasn't a Germanic creation then explain why it didn't arise in any other Christian countries?
    What do you mean? Chivalry arose in France. It's a french word, from cavalier, meaning horseman.
    Apfelstrudel mit Vanillesoße, yeah I said it, what are you gonna do?

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    'Perseverance' would be a good one to add.

    Germanics have the ability to stand up and return from defeat and failure. Each time we have a setback, we recognize this, and if the purpose is a true one we continue until success is won.

    Perseverance is inherently dynamic in nature, and is essential to Natural Order. We must actively persevere and preserve our folk and way of life. We must persevere to achieve, and must remain stalwart in our works and commitments, for only through our achievement can we truly foster the developments and evolution of our true destiny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    What do you mean? Chivalry arose in France. It's a french word, from cavalier, meaning horseman.
    More like it was perfected by the English nobility who ruled over large parts of France. Read my earlier posts, it existed in prototypes before the Middle Ages.

    Besides, back then the French were barely even Romance. Calling them 'Franks' and distinguishing them from the Occitans was still the norm.

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