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Thread: Genetic Differences Between Ulster Scots?

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    Genetic Differences Between Ulster Scots?

    Are there any genetic differences between Ulster Irish (Scots Irish here in the U.S.) and Irish? Or Scottish or English?

    What is the genetic makeup of these people. Sometimes it seems that these people are worlds apart different from everyone around them in the UK and Ireland. Why is that? Almost as if they're from a another planet.

    thanks

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    Aka thecryingorc
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    Well, the people that are commonly referred to as Scots-Irish in the United States are what we call Ulster-Scots, not Ulster-Irish. The Ulster-Scots (or Scots-Irish, if you like) are the the descendants of English and Scottish settlers who arrived during the plantations.

    The term Scots-Irish is an inaccurate Americanism, as they are not really Irish but are in fact inhabitants of the north of Ireland who are of British (English and Scots) descent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sefo View Post
    Are there any genetic differences between Ulster Irish (Scots Irish here in the U.S.) and Irish? Or Scottish or English?
    As far as I'm aware of, the term "Ulster Irish", doesn't exist. Unless you're talking about the dialect of Irish spoken in Ulster. However, Ulster Scots are descendants of Scottish and English settlers who arrived in Ireland to work the plantations in the 17th century. The majority of the Ulster Scots came from Galloway or the lowlands.

    What is the genetic makeup of these people. Sometimes it seems that these people are worlds apart different from everyone around them in the UK and Ireland. Why is that? Almost as if they're from a another planet.
    Their genetic makeup is rather self-explanatory; a mixture of Scottish, English and Irish. Although it will of course vary with the family or the individual. When the settlers first began migrating to Ireland, there was a lot of religious tension between the Catholics and Protestants. One of the rules that were given to the Scottish / English settlers, who were mainly Protestants at this point, was that marriage to an Irish Catholic was not permitted. Some of the Ulster Scots didnĺt take the rule as seriously as the others, so thereĺs almost always been Irish influence, but as I said above; it completely varies on the family.

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    I see. Genetically and culturally how would that differentiate them? It would seem that they mostly consider identify themself's with the Celts or Gaels, as the Irish do. Which is odd if the majority of the makeup of these people are of lowland Scottish and English origin. Would that not put them culturally in a more Germanic category then the Irish?

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    It would seem that they mostly consider identify themself's with the Celts or Gaels, as the Irish do.
    Yes, they usually do, which I find to be incorrect in most cases ( ). Since a Celtic Scotland is shoved down the world's throat, and the fact that they have Irish influences both culturally and genetically. I would assume this is whats to blame for their identification with the Celts.

    Which is odd if the majority of the makeup of these people are of lowland Scottish and English origin. Would that not put them culturally in a more Germanic category then the Irish?
    It's another one of those "case-by-case basis". After so many years of having Irish influences some Ulster Scot families are indeed more Celtic now. While some familes have managed to stay more Germanic.

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    How often is "Irish" a misnomer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Olav View Post
    Yes, they usually do, which I find to be incorrect in most cases ( ). Since a Celtic Scotland is shoved down the world's throat, and the fact that they have Irish influences both culturally and genetically. I would assume this is whats to blame for their identification with the Celts.



    It's another one of those "case-by-case basis". After so many years of having Irish influences some Ulster Scot families are indeed more Celtic now. While some familes have managed to stay more Germanic.
    Researching my lineage, I came across a reference to one Stockley family from Ulster. Definitely Protestant and seem to have intermarried with Britons, but I've seen separate references to them being "Irish" from Ulster and of uncertain origin. The name suggests to me that they were either ultimately Germanic or assumed it because it was easier to be English/Protestant in Northern Ireland than it was to be Irish Catholic.

    So, could they indeed have been Irish Protestants, or is it fairly common for genealogists to describe all the people of Northern Ireland as "Irish"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by odin the wanderer View Post
    Researching my lineage, I came across a reference to one Stockley family from Ulster. Definitely Protestant and seem to have intermarried with Britons, but I've seen separate references to them being "Irish" from Ulster and of uncertain origin.The name suggests to me that they were either ultimately Germanic or assumed it because it was easier to be English/Protestant in Northern Ireland than it was to be Irish Catholic.

    So, could they indeed have been Irish Protestants, or is it fairly common for genealogists to describe all the people of Northern Ireland as "Irish"?

    My knowledge on Irish history and Irish surnames is limited, but the Stockley surname is usually an English name which is commonly found in Devonshire. So it's very possible that they were English who migrated to Ireland with the Scottish settlers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olav View Post
    My knowledge on Irish history and Irish surnames is limited, but the Stockley surname is usually an English name which is commonly found in Devonshire. So it's very possible that they were English who migrated to Ireland with the Scottish settlers.
    Thanks. I'll go as far as I can to verify it, of course, but their marriage habits would definitely suggest an ultimately English origin. Did you have the origin of the name off the top of your head?

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    Quote Originally Posted by odin the wanderer View Post
    Thanks. I'll go as far as I can to verify it, of course, but their marriage habits would definitely suggest an ultimately English origin. Did you have the origin of the name off the top of your head?
    Off the top of my head? Afraid not. In this book besides me? Aye. It's indeed an Anglo-Saxon locational name and it's most commonly found in Devonshire, Staffordshire and in Durham.


    Here's a site you might be interested in, I went ahead and put in the name myself (see picture above), but it could come in handy later on or you can continue your search there. It's probably out of date by a few years, but I've still found it to be accurate. Just search a surname and it'll show you where the name is most widely registered. http://worldnames.publicprofiler.org/Main.aspx

    Anyways, if you have further questions about the name, feel free to PM me, as we're getting off topic here.

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    Well in that case, this raises another interesting question. If your family is one of those who's ancestors came to America in the colonial times (say 1700
    s) were of Ulster Scott descent (Scotts-Irish, whatever).... would it be fair to say that one would very likely have quite abit of Anglo-Saxon in them?

    I'm going on the assumption that there wasnt as much Irish influence at this early time.

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