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Thread: White Nationalism, the White Identity and its Validity in Europe

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    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    White Nationalism, the White Identity and its Validity in Europe

    [Moderation note: Discussion split from this thread.]


    "White Nationalism" is an oxymoron, not an ideology.

    And this is what's wrong with it:



    NS imagery, pseudo-ironic word usage (malevolent freedom ), and then "Embrace white culture".

    What is "white" culture? What is "white"?

    The article posted here pins down why Europeans should NOT adopt anything of the WN movement. It doesnt have any meaning, and it's not even nationalism in any sense of the word
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    Senior Member Plantagenet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post

    What is "white" culture? What is "white"?

    The article posted here pins down why Europeans should NOT adopt anything of the WN movement. It doesnt have any meaning, and it's not even nationalism in any sense of the word
    I disagree. White culture, though widely diverse depending on each particular nation, is European culture and European derived culture. White is just another term for European except broadened to fit colonial nations who are no longer from the geographic entity of Europe (primarily Americans, Canadians, Australians, Kiwis, South Africans, etc.) and to contrast us to non-white or European people wherever they may be from.

    Now, I agree that each particular European or colonial nation should focus primarily on their own unique form of nationalism geared toward their own state, culture, and ethnicity. However, it seems to me that pretty much every white/European nation is facing many of the same issues when it comes to demographics, immigration, racial awareness, and cultural/political problems. It is these common issues as well as our common heritage, however diverse, that gives substance to the idea of white nationalism.

    Of course if we accept that race is the primary thing to be preserved, white nationalism could also extend outside the limits of states and cultures where one could desire to preserve the European/white race regardless of whatever unique ethnicity or culture they may belong to. I know that is how I feel; I am an American of almost entirely English descent but I still wish to see the Swedish, French, German, Irish, or Australian people preserve their own ethnicities and heritages despite me not being related to them entirely by blood or culture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    why Europeans should NOT adopt anything of the WN movement.
    Don't forget, the WN is quite good outer shield for us. F.e. a greek, italian or russian individual can have non-european admixutre, however in a White Unity he could work for the own nation, for the white "nation" and at least but not last indirectly four us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    "White Nationalism" is an oxymoron, not an ideology.

    ...

    What is "white" culture? What is "white"?
    I think that it's American for "how it was around here for the White folks in the 1920s when the Jews kept out and we kept the x, y and z in their place". It probably makes a lot more sense from an American point of view.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet View Post
    White culture, though widely diverse depending on each particular nation, is European culture and European derived culture.
    What is European culture? A mere intersection of all European cultures? Or just their common denominator?
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfaz
    Don't forget, the WN is quite good outer shield for us. F.e. a greek, italian or russian individual can have non-european admixutre, however in a White Unity he could work for the own nation, for the white "nation" and at least but not last indirectly four us.
    The Russian, Greek, Italian or whatever should work for their own nation indeed. They'd never call themselves "white nationalists" though. They call themselves Greek Nationalists, Russian Nationalists whatever.

    The WN thing originated in America, where "white" is everything that is not "black".

    And it is in America that you find individuals who have a background of 5, 6, 7 different ethnicities combined into one individual. They're no longer Slavic or Germanic or Romanic or Greek, they're everything at once and nothing. All they're left with is the "white" label that sets them apart from the "black" or "colored" individual.

    Why should we in Europe adopt this term? We have German, Danish, Dutch whatever Volks with their own history. Why should we water our histories down to something that includes all those peoples with whom we share only wars fought against each other, just because they are "white"?

    There is no such thing as "White Unity", we simply are not like Slavs or Romans or Greeks, and while they need not be enemies, there is not much that inherently connects us with them either. We should seek "unity" with our Germanic neighbors, and strengthen our identities as »Germanic«, but should actively reject "white". It's absolutely meaningless in Europe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    "White Nationalism" is an oxymoron, not an ideology.
    Exactly. White Nationalism, and 'White Unity' fundamentally contradict the term 'Nationalism', as the ideology seems to be inherently Inter-nationalist.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    What is "white" culture? What is "white"?
    Exactly, again. I compare it to this, you have these goddamn idiots who speak of a 'white empire' and 'white unity' etc, but by God, how stupid would it be to speak of a 'Black Empire' or a 'Yellow Empire'. You can see with your own eyes how different the Viets are from the Japs. Why are idiots not seeing the differences from Greece to Ireland? Absurd!

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    The WN thing originated in America, where "white" is everything that is not "black".

    And it is in America that you find individuals who have a background of 5, 6, 7 different ethnicities combined into one individual. They're no longer Slavic or Germanic or Romanic or Greek, they're everything at once and nothing. All they're left with is the "white" label that sets them apart from the "black" or "colored" individual.

    Why should we in Europe adopt this term? We have German, Danish, Dutch whatever Volks with their own history. Why should we water our histories down to something that includes all those peoples with whom we share only wars fought against each other, just because they are "white"?
    Generally because the average American is not smart enough to comprehend those differences. Not all Americans, but the average, idiot, spoon fed, who only sees in black, white, red and yellow. They should really just call it American Nationalism. But something just doesn't sound right about that, probably because I have 0 idea of what American Culture is or should be, past McDonald's, Starbucks and sh*tcoms. Ultimately it may be a smart move to just call it 'white' in the New World. Easier for the average people to digest.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    There is no such thing as "White Unity", we simply are not like Slavs or Romans or Greeks, and while they need not be enemies, there is not much that inherently connects us with them either. We should seek "unity" with our Germanic neighbors, and strengthen our identities as »Germanic«, but should actively reject "white". It's absolutely meaningless in Europe.
    My understanding, when asked of what 'white unity' is, is that it is not a great white Empire, but simply Ethnic Nationalist movements of all European nations being coordinated and mutually beneficial. Basically a political version of the Waffen-SS, 'Mot den felles Fiende'.

    It just depends on whether you plan on a unity for the short run or the long run. Obviously, 'unity' with Poland and Germany would only be in the former.

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    Senior Member Plantagenet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krähe View Post
    But something just doesn't sound right about that, probably because I have 0 idea of what American Culture is or should be, past McDonald's, Starbucks and sh*tcoms. Ultimately it may be a smart move to just call it 'white' in the New World. Easier for the average people to digest.
    Try looking at American culture prior to the 1960s counter-cultural revolution. Even better look at American culture pre-1920 for authentic American culture. Also I wouldn't say white Americans are all that less intelligent than Europeans, especially if one believes that race/genetics are the basis of intelligence.

    In any case, to reiterate what I said before, I think the idea of white nationalism derives from the commonality of race, wider culture, and common problems we all are facing. When just speaking of say French nationalism, why would that exclude a French citizen who is North African or black who, aside from his race, has completely adapted to French culture, language, and mannerisms? Say a person that was indistinguishable in behavior from other French people aside from his race? The essence of what makes that person not French is his race, which is the white race.

    Historically French Huguenots immigrated to England, Germany, the Netherlands, etc. After integrating into the culture, by the second generation or so these men became Englishman or Germans. So wherein lies the difference between such a integration and those of black or East Asian people? Race.

    Also it should be noted that use of the term "white" and concepts of the white race existed prior to existence of colonial nations like America. It should also be noted that the various European ethnicities aren't a monolithic and unmixed purities. Take Germany for example, where historically Western Germans have mixed with Celts and French, Southern Germans mixed with Italians, and Eastern Germans mixed with Slavs. Despite this mixing, all of these people are now considered German.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet View Post
    Try looking at American culture prior to the 1960s counter-cultural revolution. Even better look at American culture pre-1920 for authentic American culture. Also I wouldn't say white Americans are all that less intelligent than Europeans, especially if one believes that race/genetics are the basis of intelligence.
    I don't believe that Americans are less intelligent, per se. Maybe just held back more in potential, than other peoples. Are you implying by your last point that Americans are racially superior to Europeans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet View Post
    In any case, to reiterate what I said before, I think the idea of white nationalism derives from the commonality of race, wider culture, and common problems we all are facing. When just speaking of say French nationalism, why would that exclude a French citizen who is North African or black who, aside from his race, has completely adapted to French culture, language, and mannerisms? Say a person that was indistinguishable in behavior from other French people aside from his race? The essence of what makes that person not French is his race, which is the white race.
    But then 'white' would include all of the Slavic and Germanic immigrants in the Frenchman's nation. French nationalism would be ethnic nationalism, and you cannot be ethnically French if you are not of white origin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet View Post
    Also it should be noted that use of the term "white" and concepts of the white race existed prior to existence of colonial nations like America. It should also be noted that the various European ethnicities aren't a monolithic and unmixed purities. Take Germany for example, where historically Western Germans have mixed with Celts and French, Southern Germans mixed with Italians, and Eastern Germans mixed with Slavs. Despite this mixing, all of these people are now considered German.
    Exactly right. Probably many Germans have a few sneaky Sorbs and Poles in their family history. Not to mention the entire French nation could be considered 'mixed', being forged by a Germanic tribe who eventually were Romanised, who were in turn Romanised Celts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krähe View Post
    I don't believe that Americans are less intelligent, per se. Maybe just held back more in potential, than other peoples. Are you implying by your last point that Americans are racially superior to Europeans?
    No, that they are often racially identical to Europeans so that if would follow if intelligence springs from race than there is no reason a white American should have less potential than a European. But you are right, many Americans are held back by a forced culture of anti-intellectualism and purposeful dumbing down by the media and education systems. But if IQ means anything, the average white American IQ is as high as European nations.

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