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Thread: National Socialism and Nazism

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    Quote Originally Posted by Godwinson
    I think there are some good points raised in the above article. I have copied it out 'as is', with italics and bold type as they appear in the original.[/CENTER]

    I knew after the first two paragraphs that this comes from aryanism.com

    Those freaks (and they really dont deserve any other term) have tinkered themselves a fluffy multikult rainbow "Aryanism" ideology, twisting Hitler's (and most other NSs') words to their liking, managing - and this is actually impressive - to argue for Aryanism on the UNO claim that "race doesnt exist", and calling the product "Authentic NS".


    The forum aryan-front.org is full of freaks following this freakish ideology (not sure whether it's an outlet of aryanism.com or just "fans", but it's where they took their ideology, dysology from), and yes, they do promote race-mixing because they think "Aryan" is a psychological trait that can be found in every race, and rather than caring for biological race, promote breeding of individuals who possess this "Aryan" brain cell regardless of race.


    Both this forum and Aryanism.com really are a waste of time. They're for sure not "Authentic NS", or understood what it is about.
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
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  2. #12
    Pining for a Mythical Past
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    Isn't the internet great? Any tit can get their political works published to a wide audience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Germania Magna View Post
    The writer must be a Jewish piss taker.
    Reminds me of what it says on the site:

    If we do not link to a site that calls itself “Aryanist” or “National Socialist”, there is generally a good reason why not. The most frequent reason is because such a site deliberately associates these labels with ideas that we do not espouse, thereby creating confusion – a common Zionist trick.

    Which is the j00? You or Aryanism.net?!?!?! I'll never figure this mystery out.

  3. #13
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    Aryanism has its merits for trying to clean up and reflesh NS image and ideology, but it crosses too many lines to be taken (or implemented) seriously. Their views are completely unorthodox, sometimes seeming crazy enough to work, sometimes contradicting even themselves, it still falls short for pandering to post-WWII ideological sentiment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sehnsucht
    Which is the j00? You or Aryanism.net?!?!?! I'll never figure this mystery out.
    according to aryanism...

  4. #14
    Senior Member Germania Magna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sehnsucht View Post
    Isn't the internet great? Any tit can get their political works published to a wide audience.


    Reminds me of what it says on the site:

    If we do not link to a site that calls itself “Aryanist” or “National Socialist”, there is generally a good reason why not. The most frequent reason is because such a site deliberately associates these labels with ideas that we do not espouse, thereby creating confusion – a common Zionist trick.

    Which is the j00? You or Aryanism.net?!?!?! I'll never figure this mystery out.
    Just read Mein Kampf, the doctrine of Hitler isnt particularly obscure. The point of MK is to give the NS movement a clear and true ideological foundation and Hitler spelt it out. There is no mystery, its a clear and scientific ideology.

    You can download MK here:

    http://archive.org/details/MeinKampf_483

    Read the chapter on Race and Folk and that on the Racial State. They are the most important ideological chapters.

    The basic drift of NS could be summed up as that Germany possesses valuable Nordic remnants of the Aryan race and so Germany has a high cultural capacity and an historical destiny. The purpose of the state is to gather the best Aryan remnants, to preserve them and to promote the breeding of the Nordic race. War is fought to secure further living space for Germanics.

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    GM, thank you for the download link. Does anybody know where it can be downloaded in the original german?
    Das Recht und die Gerechtigkeit haben nur selten miteinander etwas zu tun. Höchstens machen sie winki winki wenn sie aneinander vorbei gehen.
    The Law and Justice have only seldom anything to do with one another. At the most they wave at each other when they pass one another on the street.
    Niemals vergessen. Niemals vergeben.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Germania Magna View Post
    Just read Mein Kampf, the doctrine of Hitler isnt particularly obscure. The point of MK is to give the NS movement a clear and true ideological foundation and Hitler spelt it out. There is no mystery, its a clear and scientific ideology.

    You can download MK here:

    http://archive.org/details/MeinKampf_483

    Read the chapter on Race and Folk and that on the Racial State. They are the most important ideological chapters.

    The basic drift of NS could be summed up as that Germany possesses valuable Nordic remnants of the Aryan race and so Germany has a high cultural capacity and an historical destiny. The purpose of the state is to gather the best Aryan remnants, to preserve them and to promote the breeding of the Nordic race. War is fought to secure further living space for Germanics.
    I must have 6 copies of Mein Kampf, but I just added two more. Danke!
    Ich liebe das Vaterland!

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    Well, all my student's essays are marked and I have had time to read this again properly. I have to agree with the consensus of posts here. It is a rather watery take on NS.

    The whole thing is too much of a 'select what I want and ignore the rest' as, I think, Germania Magna stated.

    ...Thus, Nazism – a malicious distortion of National Socialism originating in Zionist Allied countries, consisting of traditional Anglo/Western racial bigotry decorated with anachronistic ‘Germanic’ occultism...
    This is a rather sweeping statement and simply ignores the complex völkisch origins of the movement.

    This is, of course, the exact opposite of what the “2010s Nationalists” are doing by encouraging segregation and distrust along ethnic lines. Hence it has often been joked that, had neo-Nazis actually lived in National Socialist Germany, they would have been among the first groups put into concentration camps by Hitler.
    Groan This (above) is ridiculous. So what are we to do? Embrace the multikult society?!?!

    ...as opposed to assuming that Hitler actually believed everything written in Mein Kampf (which was designed by himself and Rudolf Hess to be a work of propaganda, not a political manual).
    Although MK (as Hitler later confessed) was 'raw' in many ways, it was a political testament and summary of the movement and AH's involvement and guiding principles up to that point and thus an invaluable historical document of the early years of the movement. To dismiss it as simply devised for propaganda purposes if preposterous.

    (e.g. the traitor Heinrich Himmler, whom everyone else in the cabinet hated) to ‘officially’ represent the party.)
    Grrrrrrr

    “A great idea had been misused by small men. Himmler was the evil symbol of that.” – Alfred Rosenberg
    ...and this Rosenberg quote! Correct me if I am wrong, but surely this is a Nuremberg 'trial' period quote? Rosenberg is quoted here under duress.

    So my assessment is, a rather wet interpretation of the aims of NS selected in a rather vain attempt to distance the writer's preferences above other nationalist minded groups.
    “unless they know, mystically, that beneath the concrete lies the earth which has nourished their race for a thousand years and ... that it is their own earth from which their blood is shed and renewed, then they are a lost people, and easy prey for those who have lacked roots for many centuries"
    A. K. Chesterton

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    Quote Originally Posted by Germania Magna View Post
    I disagree, National Socialism and Nazism are the same thing. Nazism is actually an abbreviation of the German term NAtionalsoZIalismus. Joseph Goebbels used the term in the pamphlet Nazi-Sozi.

    The distinction between NS and Nazism is false. The present writer simply wants to lump all the things that he likes as NS and all the things that he dislikes as Nazism.
    "If we National Socialists have to refer to ourselves as "Nazi" we are truly in the company of idiots'" ~ Some Haight guy from Stormfront.

    Try find an example of a Marxist/Communist party that calls itself the 'Commie Party'. But you are right, 'nazi' is just the vernacular, albeit derogatory, like 'faggot' to 'homosexual'.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Sigyn's Avatar
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    "Aryanism" is one of the most bizarre ideologies I've ever heard of, a form of anti-Zionist liberal multiculturalism dressed up in Third Reich trappings.

    As for David Myatt, also known as Abdul-Aziz ibn Myatt, he should never be taken seriously as an ideologue. As his name change shows, he went from being an NS skinhead to a Muslim and now is at something he calls "the Numinous Way".

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    I like this article on the subject.

    National Socialism, Neo-Nazism and White Nationalism by Dr. Karl Radl.

    National Socialism is easily the best known and most vilified of all racialist ideologies and hence the vilification that National Socialism has endured over the past decades has meant that it has become a tag associated with what is regarded as pure evil. If you were to ask the man in the street what his opinion of National Socialism was; you would almost certainly be treated to responses laced with such adjectives as: ‘evil’, ‘inhuman’, ‘genocidal’, ‘irrational’, ‘paranoid’ etc. Hence this vilification has been passed onto White Nationalist ideology as an ideology which shares many of the same philosophical byways of National Socialism. We shall assume as White Nationalists act as if their ideology was defined that it is defined by what they suggest as its only commonly agreed on value: i.e. the ‘14 words’.

    But here we come upon a problem already: National Socialism has 25 fixed precepts and a wealth of commentary literature, which show their proper interpretation as well as another foundational document from the author of the 25 precepts i.e. Adolf Hitler. White Nationalism if we assume it as a defined entity only has the one. This causes us a problem: can White Nationalism be an ideology with only a single specific precept and no commentary literature or any foundational documentation?

    Some might argue it does: but then I would ask how can this be so?

    White Nationalists differ radically in their real positions on important issues such as economics, immigration, domestic politics and so forth that it makes any agreement on what is and what is not foundational literature nigh impossible. Nor would I note has there ever been any agreement historically about what it entails. The ‘14 words’ themselves might be called into question by some White Nationalists, but I think this unlikely: as to do so would be hard for any White Nationalist to coherently argue within their general frame of political thought and what the term suggests and means linguistically.

    The difference is obviously large, because National Socialism with its defined state can begin to interpret and propagate itself according to its basic principles, but with ‘White Nationalism’ being undefined it cannot, but rather because it only rests on a single principle. It becomes a label, which must be combined with other labels to give a complete world view. For example: if one is to say one is a White Nationalist one has to clarify specific points of one’s own leanings. Somebody could correctly say ‘I am a Capitalist White Nationalist’ and in the same vein one could also say ‘I am a Communist White Nationalist’.

    Some would immediately retort that the later is incompatible with White Nationalism, because it is the creation of jews and so forth. However this objection is easily removed when we understand that White Nationalism hasn’t defined itself beyond the ‘14 words’ and hence has no views on jews, because ‘White’ remains undefined and unclassified and also because White Nationalism takes no point of view or defines its perception of economic matters. Communism is a political adjective, but a defined one, rather than a world view. Since although Marxism seeks to understand the world in terms of 'class struggle': it does not define what the ‘proletariat’, ‘petit bourgeois’, ‘bourgeois’ and 'elite' in fact are (i.e. there is no authority to make a uniform interpretation and hence no single meaning for either of these terms in Marxist ideology). It, like White Nationalism, uses a broad generalism and hence what these terms mean to different groups and individuals can and does differ radically.

    National Socialism by contrast did have an original schism in its thought between the Hitlerites and the Strasserites, but due to National Socialism's respect and appreciation for properly constituted authority. This debate was successfully resolved when the latter was declared to not be in accordance with National Socialist ideology, but rather to be a pseudo-Marxist school of thought. To the present National Socialism, as a living ideology, has been strong and coherent. It has of course, as very successful and coherent ideologies often do, attracted many dysfunctional types who seek to imitate it without understanding it. They show a particular preference toward the symbols and history of National Socialism, but no respect towards those who wore and died for them: i.e. those who died for these symbols are an essential part of the living essence of National Socialism.

    This contrast is obviously a stark one: on the one hand we have an ideology with no significant definition and no authority to guide it. However on the other: we have an ideology, which venerates authority in general, but only seeks to preserve what it sees as lawful authority. All other authority is to be obeyed (unless National Socialist authority orders that this should be otherwise), but not regarded as lawful. This contrast has meant that many of these imitators of National Socialism enjoin that they follow both the creed of White Nationalism and National Socialism leading to a false link between the two.

    This false link between both White Nationalism and National Socialism has been the cause for the vilification of White Nationalist ideology with the supposed ‘crimes’ of National Socialism. However regardless of this: in order to understand the difference between the two ideologies in detail it would be profitable to examine this false link. This will then inform our thoughts about the two ideologies, because it will inform us as to what National Socialism is perceived to be and how that actually relates to White Nationalist political concepts rather than those of National Socialism.

    This false link is often named neo-nazism, which is an apt term for it, but this label is often misapplied to National Socialists without the perception that National Socialism embraces evolution within it. So the term, neo-nazism, suggests that there has been in a change in the 25 precepts. However since no formally constituted National Socialist leader has recognized such a change: we must conclude that this change has been illegal in terms of National Socialist authority and is hence not in accord with National Socialist ideological structure and hence is a completely separate entity to National Socialism. Hence we must treat neo-nazism as a separate and distinct ideology from National Socialism and its use of National Socialism’s symbols cannot be a basis for suggesting that it has anything to do with it. In the same way for example: a clothing manufacturer who produces clothes with communist slogans and imagery, but without an ostensive political motive cannot considered to be promoting communist ideology without any other proof.

    So then if neo-nazism isn’t National Socialism: then we must wonder what in fact it is. Since as we have noted above it claims to be the modern variant of National Socialism and uses the symbols and language of National Socialism, but does not adhere to National Socialist ideology.

    Well again we find neo-nazism is a rather undefined entity with no authoritative definition, but for practical purposes I shall suggest my own. Neo-nazism is any stated form of political beliefs, which utilizes National Socialist theorists, symbols, history and political language as its own, but does not adhere to the National Socialist worldview as stated in the 25 point program, foundational document and commentary literature from National Socialist authorities and has made changes that are not authorized by National Socialist in their claimed National Socialist ideology.

    We can find an example of this in George Lincoln Rockwell: who used NS symbols and language in support of his political beliefs and party program. He was however not a National Socialist as the ideology he endorsed was not National Socialism rather neo-nazism: since he used many specific concepts which are alien to the National Socialist worldview. For example: he argued for ‘White’ racial consciousness and the need to save the ‘White’ race. This is completely alien to National Socialism as it argues that what is required is the rebirth of the Aryan race and does not recognize the ‘White’ race in any of its authorized literature. Often Rockwell seems to confuse the two entities, but they are not the same. In fact: this is a point where one can see a distinguishing characteristic of neo-nazism and National Socialism: in that neo-nazism does not recognize or seem to even realize the difference. The confusion comes about perhaps, because of the traditional difference between North American and European perceptions: Europeans generally recognize that they differ biologically between the various areas of Europe.

    Where-as Americans due to an active racial, rather than sub-racial, opponent in both the Negroid and the Americanid races have developed a lack of sub-racial cognition, which has created the situation where inhabitants of North America no longer in general recognize what National Socialism recognizes i.e. that Europeans do differ significantly in their biological inheritance, but rather assume there is a non-defined entity known as the ‘White race’.

    So we can say on this point alone that George Lincoln Rockwell was a neo-nazi rather than a National Socialist.

    This leads us on nicely to point out that White Nationalism does recognize the ‘White’ race as its central concept, but National Socialism does not at all. This rather leads us to suggest that neo-nazism has more in common with White Nationalism than National Socialism. After all National Socialist ideology specifically precludes ‘White’ as a racial concept, because although this is undefined in White Nationalism its linguistic implications suggest it corresponds with the National Socialist view of what that concept means: although in National Socialism, and in racial science, it is not recognized as a valid one. This correspondence is that it represents a genetic phenotype and is a direct reference to skin colour; which National Socialism rightly regards as having no connection to race. National Socialist ideology specifically rejects non-Germanic Europeans: such as Slavs and Med. Racial groups. This doesn’t mean, of course, that these groups cannot live under their own form of National Socialism or that they can live as non-Aryans under the protection of the Germanic National Socialist umbrella. This means, of course, since neo-nazism does not do this: that neo-nazism does not in the least adhere to National Socialist ideology of which this is a specific part: White Nationalist ideology however endorses this neo-nazi view. This then logically leads us to ask whether neo-nazi’s are just a form of White Nationalist who abuse the symbols and language of National Socialism without, as was asserted above, understanding what they were purporting and using.

    This view of neo-nazism would be logical since White Nationalism as we’ve discussed thus far is an undefined entity which rests only on a single premise: i.e. the ‘14 words’. This means because neo-nazis share this only premise of White Nationalism; they must be White Nationalists rather than National Socialists despite calling themselves the later rather than the former. This means that false link is thus exposed as what I have denoted it as: i.e. false. Since neo-nazis do not in themselves conform to National Socialist ideology and nor do they adhere to National Socialist authority by implication and practical reality. This means they are not National Socialists and since share the only precept of White Nationalism; they must be White Nationalists.

    The traditional interpretation of this false link has been that the widely-endorsed, but incorrect, history of National Socialism and the loading of blame upon it for crimes, which it did not commit nor seek to commit, has been linked to White Nationalism in order to discredit it. However: how can this be true? White Nationalism as we have been discussing is not even defined so why would anybody wish to discredit it? An un-unified and undefined ideology with no basis within it for settling any disputes that arise is no threat to anyone let alone the jews and the non-national state in general.

    Also let us note that the neo-nazis seem have little overt connection to White Nationalism but a lot of connection to National Socialism in that few people would suggest that they are in fact more closely related to White Nationalism but rather National Socialism. This is because of their use of National Socialist symbols and language as well as performing what they consider to be veneration of National Socialist historical figures. This means that to the uninitiated, and indeed to many neo-nazis themselves, they seem like they are National Socialists when they are in fact not and never will be.

    Rather what this all suggests is that National Socialism is the real target of the vilification since by having neo-nazis parade around and seem as if they are representing National Socialism. They can be used as a gateway to assault National Socialism by suggesting that neo-nazism is National Socialism rather than being accurate, which as we have discussed is that neo-nazism is much closer to White Nationalism than to National Socialism.

    You might ask why would people wish to attack and discredit National Socialism rather than White Nationalism?

    The answer as we have already pointed out is to do with organization and the ability to formulate coherent positions. National Socialism is a worldview and as such is an attractive proposition to many successful people, because while it can be perhaps be described as revolutionary: it is not so in the sense of disorder. In fact: National Socialism is a philosophy of order and explicitly rejects disorder when and where possible. It seeks to order and regiment society and as any person who has a little knowledge of military history knows: a small, highly disciplined professional force will nearly always triumph over an undisciplined though by far numerically superior rabble. White Nationalism is a large body of individuals with little in common but one precept and is not an effective unit. National Socialism is a small highly elite body of professional men and women who understand what is required of them and that is what makes National Socialism so dangerous that in order to beat it the forces in power then as now created a new force, neo-nazism, to discredit and ruin National Socialism in the eye of those who would be attracted to it as an ideology.

    The interesting point here is that White Nationalism was formed not as an entity on its own, but rather as a result of neo-nazism, whose general absurdity many White Nationalists soon realized and they endeavored to take the National Socialist symbols and language out of White Nationalism: to create what they thought to be a more apt beast for the modern world. However what they did not realize is that by doing so and distilling a conception of National Socialism created by jews, and National Socialism’s enemies in general, they fell headlong into the trap these same enemies had sprung. For these reformers who became the progenitors of White Nationalism did not understand that National Socialism was not neo-nazism but rather a wholly different concept. A complete worldview: while neo-nazism much like White Nationalism survives on the 14 words as a single agreed upon precept. Neither of these creations are defined or organized enough to succeed and nor is it likely they will ever be so.

    National Socialism however did succeed and will succeed again.

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