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Thread: English Gene Pool

  1. #31
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    There may be a lack of evidence that Churchill's mother, Lady Randolph Churchill née Jennie Jerome, was Jewish or partly of Jewish descent, but it was strongly suspected, even by a number of Jews.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingvaeonic View Post
    As for the Celts v. the Anglo-Saxons v. the Normans, I was being jocular in all instances. Never mind.
    Had me going there...
    Last edited by Rĉdwald; Tuesday, May 15th, 2012 at 08:09 PM. Reason: sp.
    If only you knew how bad things really are

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfram View Post
    There is no evidence that she was jewish
    His mother was French, Jewish and Native American. An NYC heiress of many ethnicities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unity Mitford View Post
    Sorry, I have amended my post. I was being provocative.

    His mother was French, Jewish and Native American. An NYC heiress of many ethnicities.
    Where is the evidence that she was jewish other than just speculation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unity Mitford View Post
    His mother was French, Jewish and Native American. An NYC heiress of many ethnicities.
    Lady Churchill most certainly had Huguenot ancestry, although I’m somewhat hesitant to agree with you when you mention that she had Jewish and Native American ancestry. We know with certainty that the rumours of Churchill having Cherokee ancestry are false. Lady Churchill’s Grandmother was likened to a Native American, as she had dark eyes and tawny skin. In reality, she had a Mediterranean appearance. You could be right when you mention that Churchill had Jewish ancestry, although I remember reading an article either last year or the year before which disproved these rumours, too.

    I believe Lady Churchill was predominantly of English and French stock.

  6. #36
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    In the British Press there has recently been some controversy about Winston Churchill and alleged anti-semitism. An unpublished magazine article of 1938, not written by Churchill but allegedly approved for publication in his name, contains references to Jews which would get him into trouble today, though at the time they would have seemed relatively innocuous.

    But what I want to discuss is a claim that Churchill himself had Jewish ancestry on his mother's side. According to a letter by Mark Corby in the London Times on 22 March, 'his mother Jenny Jacobson/Jerome was a New York Jew, as was pointed out by Moshe Kohn in an article in the Jerusalem Post of January 18, 1993'. But a letter on 26 March from David Watson denied this, claiming that Churchill's American ancestry could be traced back to the early 18th century, without a sign of any 'Jacobson'.

    Now I don't personally care much whether Churchill had Jewish ancestry or not, but I see from the internet that this claim (specifically, that his maternal grandfather changed his name from Jacobson to Jerome) is popular in certain circles. Why did Churchill hate that nice Mr Hitler? Why did he betray the Aryan race? Why, it's obvious, isn't it - he was one of those!

    So I wanted to see whether there is any basis for the claim. I began with an internet search, but found nothing to support the claim other than repeated references to the article by Moshe Kohn. Since a newspaper article is hardly a good primary source, this does not inspire confidence. My next step was to visit a library with excellent biographical collections. There are countless biographies of Churchill, a few of his mother Jenny, and one of his mother's father, Leonard Jerome. On browsing relevant parts of these, I found them unanimous in tracing Churchill's Jerome ancestry back to Timothy Jerome, of Huguenot descent, who migrated to America around 1717. Of course, this might all be an elaborate cover story, but if so it is one that could easily be refuted. The biographies contain references to public figures, such as Leonard Jerome's uncle Judge Hiram Jerome, and records in public archives which could be checked by anyone suspicious of a cover-up. The only serious gap in the official records of Churchill's ancestry is a long way back in the female line, which cannot be traced beyond his great-great-grandmother, Anna Baker. According to family legend, she was part-Iroquois Indian, which the family believed accounted for the prevalence of dark eyes or complexion in the family. This does have a certain whiff of cover-up, but if so the cover-up may be of something other than Jewish blood. According to one account, Churchill himself believed there was a drop of black somewhere in his ancestry (see Elisabeth Kehoe, Fortune's Daughters: The Extravagant Lives of the Jerome Sisters (2004), p.4). In any case, the usual claims of Jewish ancestry concern Churchill's mother's father, Leonard Jerome, and not the female line leading back to Anna Baker.
    This should be interesting reading. The full blog entry refutes that Churchill had Jewish forbears, it's written by some liberal fool, but it does show how these suspicions started and investigates the basis for the claim.

    http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2007/04/chu...try-not_08.php

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    I don't care for Churchill, but he wasn't a Jew. His mother had a standard colonial-era Anglo-American pedigree; predominantly English with some Huguenot and other British Isles groups thrown into the mix. It would be impossible (and nonsensical) to cover up any such Jewish ancestry. It's true that Jennie Jerome was said to have been part Iroquois, but that's based purely on family lore and in keeping with the WASP habit of injecting some fictitious Indian forbear into one's lineage. Unlikely as it is, the fact that it goes back generations really renders the legend irrelevant anyway. The important point, however, is that Churchill was known to believe the story, but again, why does it matter?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unity Mitford View Post
    The Anglo Saxons were one of the finest and most successful Germanic groups. They single-handedly created what we know as England - we did not need the Normans.
    Quite right, UM. They were not wanted or needed. Damned Norman interlopers! Had Harold been the victor at Hastings our modern English would be a purely Germanic language, like modern Frisian or Low German/Low Saxon, and England would not have been so embroiled in French political chicanery and all the wars in France. Indeed, I remember reading something at school many years ago that if the Normans had lost at Hastings, England would have likely been more closely associated with Scandinavia, specifically Denmark and Norway. It would be fair to assume, too, that had the Saxons repelled the Norman invasion, England would have had closer ties with the original Angle and Saxon continental homelands in northern Germany and the northern Netherlands.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loyalist View Post
    I don't care for Churchill, but he wasn't a Jew. His mother had a standard colonial-era Anglo-American pedigree; predominantly English with some Huguenot and other British Isles groups thrown into the mix. It would be impossible (and nonsensical) to cover up any such Jewish ancestry. It's true that Jennie Jerome was said to have been part Iroquois, but that's based purely on family lore and in keeping with the WASP habit of injecting some fictitious Indian forbear into one's lineage. Unlikely as it is, the fact that it goes back generations really renders the legend irrelevant anyway. The important point, however, is that Churchill was known to believe the story, but again, why does it matter?
    In the final analysis it doesn't matter. But it does make interesting reading, at least for a short time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokle View Post
    What would you say the percentage of the genetic gene pool in England is from each of these groups?

    Celtic
    Roman
    Angles
    Saxons
    Jutes
    Danes
    Norse
    Norman
    Over 50% of genetic is of Germanic derivation, the rest is mainly Celtic. Romans and Normans contributed very little to the genetic make-up of the English!

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