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Thread: English Gene Pool

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingvaeonic View Post
    Many people, including some English Nationalists, consider William, king of England, duke of Normandy, (surnamed either the Bastard or the Conqueror depending on one's own predilections) to be something of a blow-in and definitely a usurper, especially as he ended Saxon rule, that is English rule, in England. The dispossession of the English by the Normans still doesn't quite sit well with a number of modern Anglo-Saxons.
    I still find it interesting that people these days even care about it that much. The Normans don't seem to have been claimed by anyone really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ingvaeonic View Post
    For my own part, I would have preferred to have had Harold, king of England, earl of Wessex, the victor at Hastings over William of Normandy.
    You would have my ancestors kicked back across the channel? Some lovely lands old Will gave us for our service at Hastings
    If only you knew how bad things really are

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krähe View Post
    I still find it interesting that people these days even care about it that much. The Normans don't seem to have been claimed by anyone really.



    You would have my ancestors kicked back across the channel? Some lovely lands old Will gave us for our service at Hastings
    The Normans' impact on the English gene pool would have been very slight. There was never that many of them to make any major impact, either in England or Ireland, even though Norman-French surnames are still quite common in the British Isles.

    As for your forbears being awarded English lands from William the Bastard, the Norman usurper of the English crown, I am singularly unimpressed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Svartljos View Post

    I would say, the various people in the British Isles have much more of a connection to each other than to any other peoples.
    You sound like Mr Churchill, another American who claimed to be English

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingvaeonic View Post
    The Normans' impact on the English gene pool would have been very slight. There was never that many of them to make any major impact, either in England or Ireland, even though Norman-French surnames are still quite common in the British Isles.
    True. Racially, it doesn't matter, considering Anglo-Saxons and Normans originate from roughly the same area anyhow. Culture is what seems to bother everyone. The trouble is that the Normans laid waste to as much of France as they did England, in the 100 years war, so I would definitely not consider them French in the sense that they were founders of the French nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ingvaeonic View Post
    As for your forbears being awarded English lands from William the Bastard, the Norman usurper of the English crown, I am singularly unimpressed.
    Does not bother me. Remember that the Anglo-Saxons themselves 'stole' land from the original Celtic inhabitants of the Isles.
    If only you knew how bad things really are

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unity Mitford View Post
    You sound like Mr Churchill, another American who claimed to be English
    Churchill was born in England to an English born father and a mother of Euro American stock. Likely to be mainly of British Isles stock.

    Churchill was Englishman, not an American.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krähe View Post
    True. Racially, it doesn't matter, considering Anglo-Saxons and Normans originate from roughly the same area anyhow. Culture is what seems to bother everyone. The trouble is that the Normans laid waste to as much of France as they did England, in the 100 years war, so I would definitely not consider them French in the sense that they were founders of the French nation.



    Does not bother me. Remember that the Anglo-Saxons themselves 'stole' land from the original Celtic inhabitants of the Isles.
    Culturally the Normans made a huge difference, especially in government, administration, and law--and even in cooking. Many of the words connected with English law and law enforcement are Norman-French, such as arrest and parole. Up until the 1960s in Australia, and other English common-law jurisdictions, in order to study law the prospective law student needed to have a matriculation pass in French and Latin. Sadly that has not been necessary since about 1964 or 65.

    As for my being singularly unimpressed not bothering you, I'm sure you are not. And as for taking the lands from the silly bloody Celts, that was quite necessary. The Celts were not farmers, or not very good farmers, and the land was just wasted on them. So we did what was necessary. And it was a swimmingly great and raging success. We were rolling in it, until your lot turned up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingvaeonic View Post
    Culturally the Normans made a huge difference, especially in government, administration, and law--and even in cooking. Many of the words connected with English law and law enforcement are Norman-French, such as arrest and parole. Up until the 1960s in Australia, and other English common-law jurisdictions, in order to study law the prospective law student needed to have a matriculation pass in French and Latin. Sadly that has not been necessary since about 1964 or 65.

    As for my being singularly unimpressed not bothering you, I'm sure you are not. And as for taking the lands from the silly bloody Celts, that was quite necessary. The Celts were not farmers, or not very good farmers, and the land was just wasted on them. So we did what was necessary. And it was a swimmingly great and raging success. We were rolling in it, until your lot turned up.
    Yes, I understand all of that, and like I said earlier, it is unfortunate that the French language bastardised the English one so much.

    Unfortunately, I can apply the same logic that use towards Celts, to the Norman takeover of England. I could say; well, the Anglo-Saxons never did much with that country, they couldn't even unify it, or withstand the Danes in the North, they should be thankful that the Normans turned it into a centralised powerhouse and finally unified the country.

    But I don't really care, to be honest. It was 1000 years ago. I don't have anything against Anglo-Saxons, or the Celts for that matter.
    If only you knew how bad things really are

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krähe View Post

    Unfortunately, I can apply the same logic that use towards Celts, to the Norman takeover of England. I could say; well, the Anglo-Saxons never did much with that country.
    The Anglo Saxons were one of the finest and most successful Germanic groups. They single-handedly created what we know as England - we did not need the Normans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krähe View Post
    Yes, I understand all of that, and like I said earlier, it is unfortunate that the French language bastardised the English one so much.

    Unfortunately, I can apply the same logic that use towards Celts, to the Norman takeover of England. I could say; well, the Anglo-Saxons never did much with that country, they couldn't even unify it, or withstand the Danes in the North, they should be thankful that the Normans turned it into a centralised powerhouse and finally unified the country.

    But I don't really care, to be honest. It was 1000 years ago. I don't have anything against Anglo-Saxons, or the Celts for that matter.
    As for the Celts v. the Anglo-Saxons v. the Normans, I was being jocular in all instances. Never mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unity Mitford View Post
    His mother was French, Jewish and Native American.
    There is no evidence that she was jewish

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