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Thread: Golden Dawn and the Rise of Greek Nationalism

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sehnsucht View Post
    Since your inability to read my posts, I clicked the link I made earlier for you and took a screenshot.




    I'm not bothered about such a joke. It was meant to be nonsensical, just like most claims of Aryan race and origin. Like this kind of crap.

    EDIT: I would also like to add, I'm not digging out my scanner and searching the edition I own for that page... just to prove I own a copy of the book? What use is that?
    Okay, you are absolved, but ...

    1. You said p.141 , while it turned out that it is on p.91 +p 92. Thus you caused some extra work and made me search on the wrong pages.
    2. I cross checked the German edition which i have too to look whether it is there too. It is, on p.108.



    Problem here also: There is no footnote, no source stated. Not in the English nor German edition. Thus Speer says that Hitler said that...

    Hitler would never have said that in public, but as i said :

    I don't object the content per se. In the way it is said he could have said (typical Hitlerian word choices, thoughts, imagery), and it smelled very much after the Monologues or Table Talks. That's why i wanted to know date or page. Unfortunately Speer/Fest don't tell from where they have their Hitler quote.

  2. #72
    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Germania Magna
    Greece: More than half police officers voted Neonazi party
    Just read on the newsticker that Venizelos failed to create a coalition and gave back the mandate. Seems there will be new elections.

    Good or bad for Golden Dawn?


    Greece's politicians have failed to agree to form a new government after days of hectic parleys among the major political parties, sending the country hurtling towards a possible new vote.

    Evangelos Venizelos, leader of the Socialist PASOK party, acknowledged on Friday his failure to form a government after he was spurned by the radical Left Coalition (Syriza), which has campaigned against the bailout.

    ...

    The leader of anti-bailout Left Coalition (Syriza) party said he would not join a national unity government with the Socialist leader.

    "It is not the Left Coalition that has refused this proposal, but the Greek people who did so with their vote on Sunday," Alexis Tsipras said after talks with Venizelos.

    The moderate Democratic Left party, which won 19 seats in Sunday's election, said it could not join any coalition that did not include Syriza.
    Source with video
    Last edited by velvet; Saturday, May 12th, 2012 at 03:25 AM. Reason: added news
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    Senior Member Loyalist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Just read on the newsticker that Venizelos failed to create a coalition and gave back the mandate. Seems there will be new elections.

    Good or bad for Golden Dawn?
    I would imagine good; the Greek people seem to have largely repudiated the mainstream parties, and this further example of bickering and deadlock should only serve to further distance voters from parties that are looking ever more ineffective. Given that this latest development will only heighten Greece's financial peril, it seems reasonable to assume that the trend of turmoil driving voters to alternative outlets, like Golden Dawn, will prevail in this case. That so many police officers supported Golden Dawn is remarkable, and of course the left and the PC brigade could try to spin that as an indication of a rising totalitarian state, but, on the contrary, I think it will lend greater legitimacy to Golden Dawn's cause and make it appear as a vehicle for stability and order. Of course, this is all contingent on Golden Dawn's established base turning out again, and I see no indication of why that would not happen, so I will take a chance and predict the party's share of the vote will increase if an another election is held.

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    Senior Member Sigyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loyalist View Post
    I would imagine good; the Greek people seem to have largely repudiated the mainstream parties, and this further example of bickering and deadlock should only serve to further distance voters from parties that are looking ever more ineffective.
    True, the mainstream parties were the net losers in this election. This economic crash only made them look worse. The main winners were the extreme Marxist-Leninist parties and Golden Dawn, all of whom get their votes mostly from the masses of angry working-class and middle-class people who are out of jobs - and this is a demographic that will only grow, since the economic crisis shows no signs of getting better.

    I also noted that the civic nationalist party in Greece was a part of the ultra-corrupt ruling coalition during these last years. I suspect this has only discredited the civic nationalists in everyone's eyes, resulting in people voting for the ethnic nationalists (Golden Dawn) instead.

    Given that this latest development will only heighten Greece's financial peril, it seems reasonable to assume that the trend of turmoil driving voters to alternative outlets, like Golden Dawn, will prevail in this case.
    As of now, I wouldn't give Greece any more than a 4 on the "Weimar scale". But these things tend to change fast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Germania Magna View Post
    Mussolini is a peacock; Hitler is an Eagle.

    I remember reading that Mussolini, though great friends with Adolf Hitler, inwardly envied him. Not surprising, considering Mussolini's ego, he must have felt insecure around such a man of great magnitude.

    One can point out many contrasting differences between Hitler's and Mussolini's methods of speech. Mussolini gave his speech with dramatic, deliberate pauses for reaction, while Hitler had what seemed like a direct conduit running from his soul to his brain and formulated words in such a manner that demanded your heart, mind, and body.

    Mussolini may have been a respectable leader, but Hitler was a true speaker.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sigyn View Post
    It's not surprising that fringe parties on both sides of the political spectrum get so many votes in a country torn apart by economic crisis. Even though Golden Dawn (the ethno-nationalist party) got an unprecedented success, the Marxist-Leninist parties also had a massive upsurge in votes. The net losers of this election were the Greek mainstream parties, who were behind this debt crisis in the first place. Not surprisingly, the media has focused entirely on the "extreme right" here, while conveniently ignoring the leftists.

    The shouting and threats are a bit unnecessary, and will just scare off potential voters. Also, surely I'm not the first one who thinks the Golden Dawn leader physically looks like a toad? A rather racially dubious fellow, not exactly the best PR material. IMO, the woman interviewed in this news clip (starting at about 0:45) would be a far more photogenic speaker for the group:

    Aktuellt 120504
    There is no need to criticize the man's appearance. He is a great man, a good leader, and someone actually doing something in spite of the defeatism that broods from being against overwhelming odds.

    And you must Realize that the anger in his speeches suits the times, at least in Greece. The Greek people realize they've been screwed over, and are looking for the culprit to channel their rage. They need someone who is talking to them, fighting for them, not standing behind a curtain discussing with other weak politicians.
    Ich liebe das Vaterland!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDashingRogue View Post
    Mussolini is a peacock; Hitler is an Eagle.

    I remember reading that Mussolini, though great friends with Adolf Hitler, inwardly envied him. Not surprising, considering Mussolini's ego, he must have felt insecure around such a man of great magnitude
    I am of the opinion that Mussolini even envied the fact that Hitler had Germans to lead... rather than Italians.

    He should have Germanised the Northern Italians with the Tyrolese instead of Italianising them

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krähe View Post
    He should have Germanised the Northern Italians with the Tyrolese instead of Italianising them
    To put it more accurately instead of trying to Italianise our brothers south of the Brenner Pass. We Tyroleans as a whole are stubborn folks who do not easily give up our ways, and brave men and women would not allow their German language and culture to be taken from them, despite repression --- not under Mussolini, and not in the years leading up to the Feuernacht, and certainly not now, either.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    To put it more accurately instead of trying to Italianise our brothers south of the Brenner Pass. We Tyroleans as a whole are stubborn folks who do not easily give up our ways, and brave men and women would not allow their German language and culture to be taken from them, despite repression --- not under Mussolini, and not in the years leading up to the Feuernacht, and certainly not now, either.
    My wording neglected the fact that the Italian cowardice had not corrupted Tyrolean fortitude

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    Quote Originally Posted by Germania Magna
    Greece: More than half police officers voted Neonazi party
    False.


    Quote Originally Posted by Article
    In most of the polling stations where police officers vote, along with other citizens, the percentage of Golden Dawn ranges from 19-24%, and is the largest observed across the capital.
    "He writes about some of Police's polling stations in the City of Athens (not the metropolitan area), where citizens also vote (including those temporarily held), and still 76-81% did not vote for Golden Dawn.

    How he ends up with "more than half", is beyond my understanding. "More that half" in mathematics would be "more than 50%" everywhere.

    Hellenic Police's forces have more than 50,000 members. Golden Dawn did not receive more than 25,000 votes from them. Anyone can check ekloges.ypes.gr and do the math."


    Quote Originally Posted by Article
    ..a few hundred meters nearby, in Tsoha St.'s polling stations, where police officers don't vote (note: he means exclusively, blame his syntax), Golden Dawn's percentage drops to 12-14%. Bearing in mind that on overage, in each on of these polling stations, as shown in the electoral roll, approximately 550-700 people voted, and the number of police officers voting there ranges from 20%-30% of the total votes cast, then with the relative reduction the percentage of police officers voting for Golden Dawn ranges between 45%-59%.
    Now we've established that he talks about "half of the police officers", in some polling stations, near the Police Headquarters, in a neighbourhood of the 7th district of the City of Athens! Nice case, huh? "1 in 2 Greek cops votes Nazis".

    How could they have obtained such data when profession is not recorded in the electoral roll?

    "He says that up to 30% of the voters there, are police officers. There is no way of obtaining such data, profession is not recorded in the electoral roll and I'm guessing he didn't stood outside of each polling station from 07:00-19:00, asking everyone if he/she was a cop. Nevertheless, Golden Dawn's largest percentage in these polling stations was 14%. The largest possible percentage of police officers in them, according to his "data" (I'm guessing: "Police HQ nearby, let's give it 20-30%"), is 30%. Do you see where he's going? If up to 30% of the hypothetical cops voted there, and Golden Dawn took 14%, then divide 14 by 30 and half of the hypothetical cops voted for Golden Dawn! Because, you know, it's impossible for citizens to vote for Golden Dawn, or for cops to vote for other parties (as the vast majority of them did, in polling stations where they vote in large numbers, as the same journalist wrote above)!

    In reality, as shown in the results, more police officers (hypothetical or not) voted for the parties of the Left, than those who voted for Golden Dawn.
    (By the way, Golden Dawn's voters were 440,000. In the previous election, they were 20,000. If "half of the police officers" vote for them, then we're missing 5,000 votes from 2009.)"

    Not exactly Pulitzer prize material.

    Original article

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    Aka GermanischerAdler Herefugol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Just read on the newsticker that Venizelos failed to create a coalition and gave back the mandate. Seems there will be new elections.

    Good or bad for Golden Dawn?
    Bad, at least according to the most recent poll:

    (Reuters) - Greece's radical leftist SYRIZA party has gained support since Sunday's inconclusive election to become the most popular party, but backing for the anti-bailout group is falling, the second opinion poll since the vote showed on Saturday.

    The main pro-bailout parties, conservative New Democracy and socialist PASOK, were gaining support, according to the poll by Metron Analysis for the Epenenditis weekly.

    Greece's political landscape is in disarray after voters humiliated the only parties backing an international bailout keeping the country afloat, leaving no bloc with enough seats to form a government to secure the next tranche of aid.

    Backing for SYRIZA stood at 25.5 percent - almost 9 points up on its Sunday result, but down from 27.7 percent in the previous poll on May 10. New Democracy gained slightly, rising to 21.7 percent from 20.3 percent, while PASOK came third with 14.6 percent, up from 12.6 percent.

    Support for ultra-nationalist Golden Dawn party, which gained an unprecedented 7 percent of votes in the election, fell to 4.7 percent, still above the 3 percent threshold needed to get into parliament.

    The leaders of the first three parties have all failed to come up with a proposal to form a government. In a last-ditch attempt to cobble together a coalition, President Karolos Papoulias will summon the leaders of all parties that made it into parliament in a process that could take days.

    According to the poll, SYRIZA leader Alexis Tsipras is the most popular candidate for prime minister with 19 percent of votes. New Democracy leader Antonis Samaras came second with 14 percent, while only 11 percent of voters think PASOK leader Evangelos Venizelos is suitable to lead the country.
    Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...84B04020120512

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