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Thread: Order Through the Threat of Death and Violence

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    Senior Member Unity Mitford's Avatar
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    Order Through the Threat of Death and Violence

    What is your opinion of the death penalty? Does it belong in the world of today?

    What is your opinion of corporal punishment in schools? Would it help?

    Also: do either of these institutions belong in a future Germanic society?


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    Senior Member Alfadur's Avatar
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    The very definition of "authority" is that one group of humans, in this case the government, has a monopoly on violence. So maintaining order through the threat of violence is, to a degree, unavoidable in any society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unity Mitford View Post
    Also: do either of these institutions belong in a future Germanic society?
    Definitely. I believe that irredeemable repeat criminals, such as serial rapists and violent psychopaths, do deserve the death penalty. If there is no way to improve them, then the ethnic community shouldn't burden itself with these people. I don't view it as morally different from removing a disease from the body.

    A traitor to the state also deserves the death penalty, for rather obvious reasons (in my ideal future society, that is. I don't have a high opinion of any Germanic state in the present.)

    What is your opinion of corporal punishment in schools? Would it help?
    In a multi-racial school with low standards, yes. In a homogenous Swedish school with an orderly environment, probably not.

    As I've explained in an earlier post of mine, humans are not interchangeable cogs. "One law for the ox and the raven would be tyranny", as the old English saying went. This is true for nations, tribes and even subcultures. An African society would need brutal penalties to keep the peace, but a Nordic society would not. (In fact, this is why our legal system is a pathetic joke; because we're applying a Nordic morality to immigrant criminals who don't think in the same terms as us. We're using the same law for the ox and the raven.)

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    Senior Member hyidi's Avatar
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    I would be very careful with the death penalty. There Is so many Innocent people In America on death row or already been killed, killed for the crime they never committed.

    We need to go back to caning for bad misbehavior. These days our children are let lose behaving badly. Our descendants make a good role model, I would like to bring back 'The Way We Were'.

    I believe we need for harsher rules to let new migrants know, we mean business.

    Death penalty- Yes! For terrorist and any non-European (providing that there is evidence that pins him to the crime) that commits terrible crime against any European folks. It's time to stand up for our own country and people.

    Give them the death penalty,they might be detour from coming over to our countries.

    Should our law enforcements protect non-whites? does It belong In Germanic nations? No! they should come over on their on merits and on their own risk. We make It to easy for them, and they run wild trashing our once beautiful nations because our justice systems Is to weak soft and It's pathetic!

    Bali, Malaysia etc... they have very strict rules, we need some sort of Justice within our lands similar to theirs.

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    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    What is your opinion of the death penalty? Does it belong in the world of today?
    Certainly yes. There are simply individuals who cannot be brought back on the right track (serial rapists/killers, psychopaths with the desire to torture etc), and as Alfadur said, in that case there's no point to feed them for the rest of their lives and burden the society with them.

    It's no deterrent though, people with this sort of mental disorders dont think in these terms, and it shouldnt be used to argue for the death penalty either. It's rather a question of principles.


    What is your opinion of corporal punishment in schools? Would it help?
    When we talk about an "ideal world" of the future, it depends. One could argue that corporal punishment should be reserved for the parents. On the other hand, a school class is sort of a (temporal) "family" as well, where authority also belongs.

    I'll tell an example though. When I went to school, 25 years ago, the world was by and large still an okay place, as much as okay is possible with puberting youths aged ~13 that is However, both my English and Chemical/Physics teachers possessed something which I call "natural authority". They never had any problems to tame our horde of pupils. This was both a character trait and the fact that they were "born teachers", knew their stuff and could explain it. We pupils instinctively accepted their authority, and both never had used physical violence, or any violence for that matter. They didnt need it either.

    Then there were those teachers who didnt possess this trait. A certain authority was accepted as long as they were actually teachers and took their job serious. And then there were those teachers whose only authority was drawn from the status of being "the teacher", at least, they wished this would give them authority, which was of course not the case. Our sports teacher, stupid as f#*k, who couldnt even swim, ended of course in the water. She suffered quite some breakdowns because, well, she was the born victim (kids are an evil bunch). The threat of physical violence hadnt helped her one bit though. Another teacher tried that, a real psychopath, tried to tell us he was some FBI agent and other nonsense, no one took him serious after 2 weeks or so. So his only resort was to "teach those evil kids a lesson" and smacked one of our guys in the face. The echo came immediately, which brought the teacher down and a horde of 22 angry kids hunted him out of the class room and shortly after out of the school entirely.

    Long story short: authority is a two way street, and either you possess authority as a character trait, or you do not and then your status, your position or whatever won't help you to generate it. The threat of physical violence will generate fear, not authority or respect (which is something that is to be earned).

    So, in an "ideal world" with ethnically homogenous classes it might even be contraproductive in schools.

    Of course, in an ideal world teachers would be like my English and Physics teacher, not these wimps and freaks that today call themselves "teachers", so of course pupils would still learn respect and proper behavior towards authority as well.

    Maybe, for the specially "wild" kids it may be allowed to tame them by force as well if needed.

    Also: do either of these institutions belong in a future Germanic society?
    Order, authority, hierarchy etc belong into society, they are necessary. A certain level of "threat" is required to constantly reinforce the consciousness about that hierarchy and authority exist, and that when you disturb public order, break the laws etc that you'll be punished accordingly and that misbehavior can cost rights, temporarily (prison) or even permanently (death penalty, seizing of abused property, privileges etc).

    The "human rights" as they are sported today are an anti-social force, so they need a fundamental work over, imho.
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    Eala Freia Fresena
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    The current level of criminality is a symptom of the destruction of our culture (may I add:intentional done by Jews). Once you get rid of Jews and their evil influence in a nation of our people they revert quickly to become an almost crime less people.

    in such a nation you have only criminals which are born criminals.

    Old customs would deal with them as seen fit, prison was not known, it would have been too horrible for people belong to a nation living in freedom. Most have been monetary punishment, paid for by the sib/clan, than there was death and then there was banishment.

    With the current level of crime those measures would not work, except death.

    The current law system is broken in many of our countries, therefore I am fan of revenge and I would take matters in my own hands because I deeply distrust the courts and their judges.
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    Senior Member Lady Vengeance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unity Mitford View Post
    What is your opinion of the death penalty? Does it belong in the world of today?
    Hmmm, I don't know. I'm all for the killing of repeat criminals, but I'm also against the idea of a government (no matter who's in power at the moment) having the rights to just kill whoever it doesn't like. But the fact is that some people are just unfit to live in any society. The death penalty does quickly remove them, and deters future criminals, so I guess the pros outweigh the cons.

    A weird but cool idea is outlawry - that the legal protection of the state should be removed from those who can't behave in a human society.* Rapists, pedophiles, serial killers, psychopaths, cannibals, and so on. A kiddie-fiddler being shot in the face by the father of a victim, live on TV outside a court house immediately after being sentenced, would do much more to deter kid-raping than being locked up for a decade in a comfy cell and then quietly getting a lethal injection.

    (I think this was an ancient Germanic tradition, IIRC. If couldn't pay the blood money to your victim's family, or they refused it, you were X-ed from the society. I'll have to check that out some other time.)

    * OTOH, the outlawed person might go on an insane spree and cause more damage before someone kills him, or just find a way to escape from punishment. So I'm pretty unsure if this is a good idea in practice. We don't live in the same way our ancestors did.

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    Senior Member Wulfram's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Vengeance View Post
    A kiddie-fiddler being shot in the face by the father of a victim, live on TV outside a court house immediately after being sentenced, would do much more to deter kid-raping than being locked up for a decade in a comfy cell and then quietly getting a lethal injection.
    A bad idea. Watch this video of a "kiddie-fiddler" being shot by the father of the victim on live TV:

    Father of Kidnapped Son gets Revenge


    That boy needed his father at his side to support him, not from a prison cell. Now he has been traumatized twice as a result. Once by his attacker and now by the actions of his father.

    Did that man deserve to die? Absolutely, but the father should have allowed that to happen when the perpetrator was sent to prison, where they hate child rapists. If they didn't kill him then they certainly would have made his life a hel.

    After this incident, child rape continued unabated, since the average pervert is too consumed with their sickness to care about the consequences.

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    Senior Member Sigyn's Avatar
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    Death penalty? Not for most criminals, but definitely for the worst ones.

    Corporal punishment in schools? No.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocko View Post
    The current level of criminality is a symptom of the destruction of our culture (may I add:intentional done by Jews). Once you get rid of Jews and their evil influence in a nation of our people they revert quickly to become an almost crime less people.
    "Almost crime-less" would be an overstatement, although there would definitely be a huge decrease in crime if our societies had healthier values. Not to mention that the crime-prone immigrants wouldn't be here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfram View Post
    That boy needed his father at his side to support him, not from a prison cell. Now he has been traumatized twice as a result. Once by his attacker and now by the actions of his father.
    I agree with this. The death penalty shouldn't be done by individuals. I don't think this works that well in modern urban societies, either.

    On the other hand, I don't think Lady Vengeance meant that the person who kills a convicted pedophile should be imprisoned. That's the point of outlawry, that the murderer/rapist/pedophile can be killed without any legal consequences. Otherwise, he wouldn't be an outlaw.

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    Senior Member Wulfram's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigyn View Post
    On the other hand, I don't think Lady Vengeance meant that the person who kills a convicted pedophile should be imprisoned. That's the point of outlawry, that the murderer/rapist/pedophile can be killed without any legal consequences. Otherwise, he wouldn't be an outlaw.
    She wrote:

    "A kiddie-fiddler being shot in the face by the father of a victim, live on TV outside a court house immediately after being sentenced, would do much more to deter kid-raping than being locked up for a decade in a comfy cell and then quietly getting a lethal injection."

    If the perpetrator was sentenced by a legal system then outlawry would not exist to mete out the punishment. There would have been no trial in the first place. He would have been hunted down and then killed on the spot.

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    I'm a proponent of ostracism/excludation (both socially and economically) from the community of perpetrators whose actions are unwanted (cultural and behavioral deviance, for example) by the community in question. For individuals responsible for material damage, theft and disturbance of peace, I think recompensation and banishment are good measures. Death penalty should only be dealt to those who have violently violated the freedom and integrity of peaceful and innocent people (for example rapists, murderers, kidnappers, a.s.o.). The judgement of these matters ought to be passed by the people of the community themselves, not pre-selected judges, unrepresentative juries nor the police.

    As for corporal punishment in the classroom; I would see it as major transgression on my rights and responsibility as a parent, if my child was ever hit by a teacher to be 'taught a lesson'. Firstly, I would hardly ever think of ever hitting my own child myself, and I would certainly not want to trust such authority and judgement over my child on another person, even less an institution. And secondly, if a child is misbehaving in school, it should be sent home to be raised properly before being allowed to return. Education is the realm of the school system, not upbringing.
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