View Poll Results: Do You consider Iranians to be Europids?

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  • No I do not consider Iranians as Europids.(No Exceptions)

    61 38.13%
  • Yes I do consider Iranians as Europids.(No Exceptions)

    27 16.88%
  • I consider most Iranians not to be Europeans but a few are(Exception made for the few)

    72 45.00%
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Thread: Do You Consider Iranians to be Europid?

  1. #31
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    Post Re: Do You Consider Iranians to be Europid?

    Ok, at this point of the Iranian debate I'm going to throw out a challenge to our friend Shapur.

    He seems to think that the relatively high levels of HG2 in selected European populations make them "racial brothers" to Iranians, who show high levels of HG9.

    What the???

    One would have to be a very qualified genetecist to make such a call, just from looking at very distant makers which have been typed using one method.

    Dare I say, Shapur does not strike me as a qualified genetecist. I could be wrong, because I know nothing about the standard of scientific education and training in Iran, but I seriously doubt it.

    Ok, so here's the challenge...

    At the present time, the best way to measure the genetic relationship between selected populations is through the study of Autosomal Microsatellite Loci.

    I don't like using Y-chromosome and mtDNA markers to define "racial brothers" because they tell you nothing about a person's genetic composition. A black man, for example might have the European markers R1b and H, but turn out to be 90% sub-Saharan in terms of overall genetic composition.

    If Shapur actually finds some data showing Iranians clustering with certain Europeans in respect to Autosomal Loci, then I'll say he's got a point. Till then, he can shout "racial brothers" all he likes, and it won't make a difference.

    How's that? I think that's fair.

  2. #32
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    Post Re: Do You Consider Iranians to be Europid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa
    Some use Europid as a name for European, not for all Caucasoids, especially in the USA, whereas in Europe, in general, Europid is the same as Caucasoid.

    Furthermore Iranians are partly Orientalid, because most anthropologists consider great parts of them Iranid, which is in the scheme of Eickstedt and others an Orientalid subtype. (the other is Arabid in the South)

    Not all lump this Iranids with Nordindids together. (Irano-Afghan).

    This Iranids are probably the major group in Iran, followed by Armenids, Alpinoids/Pamirids, Mediterranids and Nordindids.

    With Mongolid admixture in the Turkic people and a certain amount of other admixture in different parts.
    Mostly all Iranians are Irano-Afghan or have Irano-Afghan admixture.
    What you understand under Orientalid subtype is for Med.
    Look on the map of racial composition from Coon and you understand what I mean.

  3. #33
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    Post Re: Do You Consider Iranians to be Europid?

    Not all lump this Iranids with Nordindids together. (Irano-Afghan).
    I meant Coon in special, who was not alway right anyway.

    There is a fluent border between Iranids and Nordindids, though, I wouldnt lump Iranid people like some Kurds and Persians are, with Nordindid people like Kashmiris together.

    Of course, its a question of definition and the border is fluent...
    Magna Europa est patria nostra
    STOP GATS! STOP LIBERALISM!

  4. #34
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    Post Re: Do You Consider Iranians to be Europid?

    EYTYXEITE!
    Dear AWAR, talking about EU we mean an Organization included many factors, mainly, financial (as today's european "things" are considered...). I think that in this thread the core is the depth of the racial Character. Under this aspect I can definitely reply "yes"!
    Maybe the most of Europeans examine different aspects of this question such "colour of the skin", "shape of nose", "distance between eyes"... Everything of course has its own significance but the core of the question is the Culture and Traditions. So, it is a matter of observation and study to decide.
    Kindest Regards!
    Quote Originally Posted by AWAR
    Let's just say that if there wasn't for the ruin of ancient Persian culture that the wars with Rome/Byzantium and the Islamic invasion brought, EU would today include Iran

  5. #35
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    Post Re: Do You Consider Iranians to be Europid?

    Iran has its fair share of Mongol DNA, but i believe that Iranians are mostly of Europid stock.

  6. #36
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    Post Re: Do You Consider Iranians to be Europid?

    Quote Originally Posted by A R I S T O T L E
    EYTYXEITE!
    Dear AWAR, talking about EU we mean an Organization included many factors, mainly, financial (as today's european "things" are considered...). I think that in this thread the core is the depth of the racial Character. Under this aspect I can definitely reply "yes"!
    Maybe the most of Europeans examine different aspects of this question such "colour of the skin", "shape of nose", "distance between eyes"... Everything of course has its own significance but the core of the question is the Culture and Traditions. So, it is a matter of observation and study to decide.
    Kindest Regards!
    Once, European-style civilization was present in North Africa, the Levant, Anatolia, Iran, but then a lot has happened, and these areas were torn from Europe and now reside in a non-European and anti-European twilight zone.

  7. #37
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    Post Re: Do You Consider Iranians to be Europid?

    EYTYXEITE!

    Dear AWAR, you are absolutely right!
    Civilization has to do with its creators not users. Today in Greece there is a population of nearly 11.000.000 but the real Greeks are very few, extremely few in comparisson to this large number.
    11.000.000 users (mostly destroyers...) but very few really associated directly with the creators' "tree".
    The Civilization created "then" in all these geographical areas is a reality associated with some Nations from which the "rest" still exist!
    So with Iranian People. Inside it there is a minority absolutely "white".
    It is a matter of proportion, always.
    Kindest Regards!
    Quote Originally Posted by AWAR
    Once, European-style civilization was present in North Africa, the Levant, Anatolia, Iran, but then a lot has happened, and these areas were torn from Europe and now reside in a non-European and anti-European twilight zone.
    Last edited by Aristotle; Thursday, July 15th, 2004 at 07:18 PM.

  8. #38
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    Post Re: Do You Consider Iranians to be Europid?

    Iran with it's Islamic culture is clearly culturaly antagonist to Europe. As for them being Europid or not. Most Swedes,Germans,English ect would agree that they are distinctly foreign.

  9. #39
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    Post Re: Do You Consider Iranians to be Europid?

    Quote Originally Posted by A R I S T U T T L E
    EYTYXEITE!

    Dear AWAR, you are absolutely right!
    Civilisation has to do with its creators not users. Today in Greece there is a population of nearly 11.000.000 but the real Greeks are very few, extremely few in comparisson to this large number.
    11.000.000 users (mostly destroyers...) but very few really associated directly with the creators' "tree".
    The Civilisation created "then" in all these geographical areas is a reality associated with some Nations from which the "rest" still exist!
    So with Iranian People. Inside it there is a minority absolutely "white".
    It is a matter of proportion, always.
    Kindest Regards!
    I disagree. Reading Herodothus points me to believe that ANY civilization exists not thanks to the people, but inspite of the people.
    If you went back through time, you'd see that even at it's peak, Greece was populated by mostly common people who don't give two shits about civilization, just like today.

    This goes for any country. People are largely blind when it comes to vision and creativity, only a few combine these gifts with a great ability to combat everyday mediocrity, the work and thoughts of a few people influenced the way we are today.

    The Wheel wasn't invented by some entire population, but by a man who saw a revolutionary design where everyone else saw nothing.

    Civilization is created by brilliant individuals, it's kept afloat thanks to elaborate systems which keep the flock of ordinary people together, working, living and producing.

    Here's a nice example of how quickly circumstances can change a whole population:

    This is an excerpt from an article originally found in NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC in 1908. Less than a hundred years later, after half a dozen wars, unsuccesful attempt at socialism etc. Montenegro is but a shadow of it's former greatness of spirit. Today live the direct as can be descendants of the Montenegrins of 1908. but during the run of the last century, they lost most of the ethnic spirit they once had. The dignity and courage were ruined mostly by corrupt communism. How wouldn't the spirit of ancient Greece be ruined by millenia of occupation and wars.

  10. #40
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    Post Re: Do You Consider Iranians to be Europid?

    If Turks aren't considered Europid why should Iranians be? Throughout Europe Turks are considered distinctly non-European. In Germany this is particularlly obvious. If Iranians are Europid? Why shouldn't Turks,Iraqis, and Jews also be Europid. Why shouldn't the majority of Middle Easterns be considered Europid?

    In fact I'd say in general Turks,Jews, and Palestinians fellow "Middle Easterns" are more Europid than Iranians.

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