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Thread: Let the Germans Clean Up Europe

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    Let the Germans Clean Up Europe



    Instead of dreaming about a federal union which would be at the mercy of countries that are democratic and economic underperformers, a Dutch political scientist argues that we would do better to reinforce the role of more efficiently functioning states and allow them to take care of business.

    Now that the financial crisis has been provisionally banished from the horizon, we have been treated to a number of prudently voiced ideas about the future of the European Union. This is particularly the case in Germany where the debate appears to be well underway. Angela Merkel wants to replace the Lisbon treaty and implement “major structural reforms”, while Minister for Foreign Affairs, Guido Westerwelle, has announced that he is in favour of a new “European constitution” with reinforced integration.

    At the same time, in the columns of De Volkskrant, MEP Sophie in't Veld [a member of the Dutch social-liberal party, Democrats 66] has argued for a “powerful political union”, an end to vetoes, and a European Commission president who is elected by direct suffrage.

    All of these well-known recipes have been once again been whipped out of the old federalist suggestion box, at a time when it should really be stowed away in an attic somewhere. In the course of the financial crisis, Germany has effectively shown that that its economic and political might can be turned to Europe’s advantage. And it is for this reason that several of the principles which provided the basis for postwar European integration are largely outmoded.

    The first of these is the idea that European integration is necessary to control Germany. This consideration was certainly legitimate in the immediate aftermath of the war; but we should also note that the control of Germany via supranational European institutions was primarily an expression of French economic interests.

    Within the common market, the European treaties served to protect French agriculture and industry from the dynamism of German exports. For decades, in a bid to atone for its sins and under moral pressure from France, the Federal Republic consented to act as Europe’s purser.

    Weaker member states

    In the course of the financial crisis, it has been increasingly obvious that European leaders of national governments are the main decision makers in Brussels. In the European hierarchy, the European Council is Europe’s board of management, and Herman Van Rompuy is its secretary, while Commission President José Manuel Barroso is his assistant.

    With this in mind, the suggestion that we should a elect a Commission President through universal suffrage, which has been put forward by the neo-federalists in Berlin and Strasbourg, is quite odd. It would be much more logical to continue to reinforce the European Council, while at the same time obtaining guarantees for smaller countries.

    A “political union” may appear attractive, but it would inevitably include weaker member states, which have not distinguished themselves in the fight against fraud and corruption, or in the bid for greater pluralism, openness and press freedom. France and Italy, for example, the Eurozone’s major economies after Germany, have been described as “flawed democracies” rather than “full democracies” by the American NGO Freedom House.

    In view of the conflict of interest between government and media in the country [under the rule of Berlusconi], Italy was rated as “partially free”, a category that included two other EU members Bulgaria and Romania, along with such countries as Indonesia and Bangladesh.

    The ratings attributed to the Netherlands with regard to these criteria are significantly higher than the European average. According to Freedom House, we have the most effective parliamentary democracy in the 17-country Eurozone (the evaluation was conducted in 2010 and thus takes into account populist Geert Wilders’ support for the government). So it would not be tempting for the Netherlands to share power in Brussels with countries which are barely efficient in terms of democracy and the exercise of power.

    Fewer federal elements

    When the agenda is restricted to trade and the composition of chocolate bars, these differences do not amount to an insurmountable problem. But that would certainly not be the case if there was a fully fledged political union in which member states with democracies that leave much to be desired were in the majority and could thus impose their decisions on taxes, the budget and pensions.

    And that is not to mention how such a situation might impact legislation on euthanasia, and other issues that are close to our hearts in the Netherlands, which could be easily be blocked by veto. In Berlin, there is a growing realisation that Germany can and should take on the role of European leader. Ulrike Guérot, of the European Council on Foreign Relations think tank has spoken of a German awakening and even of a German “catharsis”.

    However, she shied away from drawing the logical conclusion: such a leadership would imply a new organisation for European cooperation, which would have to include fewer federal elements so as to allow greater space for the best qualified European states to combine their strengths in an open global economy.

    We should not allow the political structuring of future cooperation to be sabotaged by allusions to Germany’s past during the war. Berlin and Strasbourg will have to wake up to this reality.
    Source http://www.presseurop.eu/en/content/...s-clean-europe

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    I don´t want that "my" Germany cleans up Europe. I believe in ethnopluralism: Every people and every country should rule itself and should be solely responsibility for the positive or negative outcome.

    German money is not to be wasted on other European countries! I don´t want to see my country subsidizing and financing the whole continent.

    What did GB Premier Margaret Thatcher say back then? "I want my money back!"

    "Judge of your natural character by what you do in your dreams" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Both intellegent points of view...but if the Germans do not take the lead it might only get worse (of course the Germans could always take LAND as payment back)....Lebensraum anyone!

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    I know where you are coming from Thusnelda, you don't want Germany / Germans being look pond as the evil Invaders. But Believe me Thusnelda, many Europeans wished Germany would just do a thing' retake & reclaim Europe once again and this time Germans will be heroes and victors.

    All have good points of views.

    PS, why can't we Thank ourselves?

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    I agree with Thusnelda here. It's absolutely ridiculous that the German economy is tied to the absurd EU system, and that German taxpayers are being forced to pay for the failures of other EU countries (the recent example being Greece). It's a giant waste of money, and will only lead to an endless cycle of dependence that will be impossible to break. Germany's leadership position in the EU is akin to being the king over a pile of garbage.

    Quote Originally Posted by heidixx View Post
    , many Europeans wished Germany would just do a thing' retake & reclaim Europe once again and this time Germans will be heroes and victors.
    LOL.

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    I wish that the scandinavian countries and Britain and Ireland, Netherlands/Flanders, and Greater Germany would join/rejoin EFTA, that scandinavia would enlarge the Nordic Union to include the above countries, and they all tell the rest of the EU to bugger off.
    Das Recht und die Gerechtigkeit haben nur selten miteinander etwas zu tun. Höchstens machen sie winki winki wenn sie aneinander vorbei gehen.
    The Law and Justice have only seldom anything to do with one another. At the most they wave at each other when they pass one another on the street.
    Niemals vergessen. Niemals vergeben.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thusnelda View Post
    I don´t want that "my" Germany cleans up Europe. I believe in ethnopluralism: Every people and every country should rule itself and should be solely responsibility for the positive or negative outcome.

    German money is not to be wasted on other European countries! I don´t want to see my country subsidizing and financing the whole continent.

    What did GB Premier Margaret Thatcher say back then? "I want my money back!"
    I fully agree. We (or rather our oh-so-beloved politicians) should concentate more on ourselves instead of interfere in other countries' business and we should use our resources for our own well-being. All Merkel is doing is fuel the preparations for the United States of Europe, which will only be bad for all countries involved. I'm convinced most people haven't realized they will all eventually lose their national identities. Otherwise there would be more opposition.

    The countries receiving financial aid do not profit in the least. They will only be tied further to the system that wants to merge all Europ. nations until all become part of the same muddy soup.

    Merkel hands out money like clowns hand out balloons at a party.

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    I think the notion that we rescue other countries is a wrong one.

    The money is not going to those countries but to Jew banks.

    It is scheme on a grand scale to rob the wealth of whole Europe, and esp Germany as the wealthiest one.

    That countries should/could take credits is a scheme by Jewbanks. for countries it is wrong to take credits and then pay interest on it. Jewbanks create paper money out of the nothing by a double entry in their books. Then the countries have to pay them back with real money plus Interest. It is an evil scheme by the parasite race.

    The governments are stooges of those banks to bring their countries into enormous debts so Jews get richer.

    The next step is do have whole countries, whole populations disowning their countries, meaning taking away their souveranity and simply have them disowned on their former lands. Everything then will be owned by Jews and therefore the slavery then is perfect.

    Our Governments are currently employed to turn the people in their countries into slaves.

    That is the grand scheme as I see it.
    weel nich will dieken dej mot wieken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordlander View Post
    Both intellegent points of view...but if the Germans do not take the lead it might only get worse (of course the Germans could always take LAND as payment back)....Lebensraum anyone!
    I've heard that it needs to get worse before it gets better. From chaos comes rebirth.

    Right wingers have said that it has to be way worse before people come flocking to nationalist groups, but it's never been as worse as now, especially in USA. A extreme right party is expected to do very well in Greek elections, so it seems they have gained a lot of support there because of the situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Germaid View Post
    The countries receiving financial aid do not profit in the least. They will only be tied further to the system that wants to merge all Europ. nations until all become part of the same muddy soup.
    Indeed, the countries who are propped up by Germany's money will only become indebted, and stuck in an endless cycle of dependence. Greece, for example, will only go bankrupt over and over again, if it can't stand on its own two feet (which it won't, thanks to the ESM). Neither does German society benefit from this, only the EU politicians and international banks. In the end, the only outcome is the German taxpayers getting bled dry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Schnadelbach
    I wish that the scandinavian countries and Britain and Ireland, Netherlands/Flanders, and Greater Germany would join/rejoin EFTA, that scandinavia would enlarge the Nordic Union to include the above countries
    Ireland was one of the PIGS countries that needed to be bailed out, no? Why should they be included into a Nordic Union?

    I'm personally against the EU and all sorts of shady multinational organizations. I'd be in favor of a monetary union between the Nordic countries, and maybe a closer co-operation with Germany/Austria and Holland, but that's the full extent.

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