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Thread: German Sympathy for the Japanese of WW2

  1. #21
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    The perceived German sympathy for the Japanese is mostly just a reference to a past alliance. Apart from a recognition that Imperial Japan was an ally of the Third Reich in WW2 and that the US was an enemy, I don't think anyone said they felt antipathy towards Germanic Americans living today. My own opinion is that WW2 was a regrettable tragedy in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krähe View Post
    The history of military in Italy isn't all bad, just terrible after unification. The troops of Sardina-Piedmont were pretty good, as was the military of the Venetian Republic.
    Indeed. There is no genuine national cohesion in Italy, because it's not so much a nation-state as a hopeless patchwork of areas that happen to speak related languages. Most Italians feel a regional patriotism rather than an allegiance to the state Italy; there can be no Italian volksgemeinschaft, because it was a far too heterogeneous country from the outset. A Lombard shares so little in common with a Sicilian that they might as well be different nations (And they were separate, for most of their history). The racial differences in Italy should also be taken into account. As you said, the Italian armies were much more competent during the Renaissance era when they fought for their native city-states. The expression "clocktower patriotism" very much applies to the Italians.

    Not to mention, Italian soldiers fought quite well during WWII, when they were placed under German leadership.
    The regular Italian troops were often a disaster on the battlefield - with low morale and bad leadership, an undisciplined Italian army fighting a war it didn't want against an enemy it didn't want was bound to be mediocre. However, a few Italian troops did perform well, such as the Italian Waffen-SS units. The elite paratrooper regiments, the Folgore, were especially singled out for German praise. But, the Soviets knew exactly what they were doing at Stalingrad, where they avoided the Germans and chose to break the Axis defense by hitting the Italian units.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huginn ok Muninn View Post
    Germany's alliance with Japan was purely political... and I think it was a huge mistake. Germany had been friendly with China in the 30s because of many business interests there, and China also had natural resources needed by Germany.
    Maybe, but the Chinese capacity for force projection was non-existent. So what could have been gained through a military alliance with them?

  3. #23
    If you had read the original post more carefully you would have known from the start that I wouldn't have cared for morality arguments that 'America provoked Japan into attacking.' Low reading comprehension is a symptom of being excessively ethnically mixed, I'm afraid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huginn ok Muninn
    In what instances and contexts do these three out of three side with Japan?
    There is no thread but this one. Friends have no ideological secrets so it's good that it's discussed out in the open.

    You said:

    (Emphasis by me). So isn't it obvious that you prefer your ally "of the time" over your enemy "of the time"? Or what doe this "of the time" mean?
    Isn't this specifically a reference to the past allegiance, and does not translate to how one thinks about Japanese of today and Americans of today?
    It's the best I can explain that I sympathize more with the Germans on the eastern front than the Russians who were USA's historical allies. But it's not a common occurrence to see a German sympathize with Americans on the Pacific front over the Japanese. It's not that complicated of a concept. I really don't care for 'American victory was bad so I can't sympathize with them' because the Americans on the Pacific front were obviously not fighting for multiculturalism anywhere. The majority of people on this forum seem to be able to only think in binary terms: America is good or America is bad, period!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Schnadelbach View Post
    AV, normally I agree with most of your posts, however...

    Do most americans feel sorry for the german women who were raped by the american's gallant soviet allies in eastern europe?
    Yes, if they know about it.

    Do most americans feel bad about how Eisenhower let hundreds of thousands of german pows starve after the general surrender?
    No, because they don't know about it.

    The question should have been about Americans on this forum and the answer would have been overwhelmingly yes. But the Americans killed in the Pacific? Not many here seem to care. There is an inconsistency and no one wants to point it out except me.

    In June 2009, President Obama visited the troops at Rammstein and said "Germany is an occupied country and it will stay that way."

    No one forced Obama to say that.
    Obama isn't my people. Obama isn't an American. If somehow he is, I'm not an American. One of us is not an American and I don't think it's me.

    The President speaks for the United States government. If the United States government considers Germany to be an occupied country, and since only enemy countries are occupied, then we germans have every right to consider the americans, who voted for this president, to still be our enemies. As you "really do not care about any claim that 'America provoked Japan into attacking' that might potentially come into this thread.", I really do not care about any claims that Obama does not represent the americans, etc that might come into this thread. They voted for him. No one forced them to.

    With thanks to Rutelinga who gave that Obama quote in another thread on this forum
    Think what you want. I resisted four years of brainwashing in a cultural Marxist university that overtly told me to vote for Obama and I didn't. Obama doesn't represent me. He does what he wants and no one can stop him. The moment that there is an original American president loyal to original Americans and not multiculturalism then you can truly say he represents me.

    =================================

    The purpose of this thread has been fulfilled. I saw an inconsistency and I pointed it out. I can't force anyone to change their mind.

  4. #24
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    I have no spoken or unspoken "sympathies" for the Japanese and even find it kind of unfair that all fingers point at Germany as the epitome of evil while the Japanese war crimes, treatment of American POWs and experimentation topics are dealt with with a "silent shame" attitude. e.g. Unit 731 culprits having been pardoned because access to the experimentation data was wanted.

    I like the lyrics of this song but it's idealism:

    Dresden burning in the night
    Coventry is still alight
    Above the blood the pain and fire
    There is a sign, we're ruled by liars

    She took me from the village square
    Through fields the colour of her hair
    Where hammers crossed point to the sky
    And fathers brothers and lovers lie

    She stopped and turned to look at me
    But in her eyes no hate I see
    She said for me please, and all the others
    No more wars amongst brothers
    Ideological/political alliances don't necessarily correspond with ethnic relations. That's a timeless historical fact unfortunately and I see no need to be politically correct about it, in any direction. I'll have no issues with acknowledging that NS Germany committed some abuses too, including against its own ppl. But it's also not against the American people to criticize the US role in WWII.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfadur View Post
    Indeed. There is no genuine national cohesion in Italy, because it's not so much a nation-state as a hopeless patchwork of areas that happen to speak related languages. Most Italians feel a regional patriotism rather than an allegiance to the state Italy; there can be no Italian volksgemeinschaft, because it was a far too heterogeneous country from the outset. A Lombard shares so little in common with a Sicilian that they might as well be different nations (And they were separate, for most of their history). The racial differences in Italy should also be taken into account. As you said, the Italian armies were much more competent during the Renaissance era when they fought for their native city-states. The expression "clocktower patriotism" very much applies to the Italians.
    Absolutely. If I were an Northern Italian, and a nationalist, I would want to see the southern regions of the country purged. That region is messed up, going from the hands of Carthaginians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Normans, Spaniards, Austrians, etc etc. The stereotype of Italians looking like swarthy Lebanese like people only pertains to the Southern regions. Mostly because the poor Southern Italians were the only ones who immigrated to the New World en masse. I think the same thing applies to Spain, clearly the Southern regions must have had a fair amount of mixing with the Moorish conquerors, which is why I think Andalusia and Granada are still the poorest regions of the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfadur View Post
    The regular Italian troops were often a disaster on the battlefield - with low morale and bad leadership, an undisciplined Italian army fighting a war it didn't want against an enemy it didn't want was bound to be mediocre. However, a few Italian troops did perform well, such as the Italian Waffen-SS units. The elite paratrooper regiments, the Folgore, were especially singled out for German praise. But, the Soviets knew exactly what they were doing at Stalingrad, where they avoided the Germans and chose to break the Axis defense by hitting the Italian units.
    Yep, exactly. I think the main reason the Waffen-SS Italian soldiers fought well was because they came of their own accord, rather than being conscripted. And a great point about the Soviets purposely aiming at the non-German elements around Stalingrad.

    A lot of Hungarians I know, who typically hate Romanians, like to say stuff like "You were the ones who failed at Stalingrad, blah blah blah." It always infuriates them when I point out that yes, the Romanians faultered after heavy fighting, but it was the Hungarians who were stealing German medical vehicles in order to high-tail it out of there.



    But back to the main point of this thread. One thing a lot of Americans seem to be ignorant of is their atrocities against the Japanese. I know the Japanese did horrible things, but it's not as if the Americans were angels.

    Have a read of this article
    Edgar L. Jones, a merchant seaman of WWII:
    We shot prisoners in cold blood, wiped out hospitals, strafed lifeboats, killed or mistreated enemy civilians, finished off the enemy wounded, tossed the dying into a hole with the dead, and in the Pacific boiled the flesh off enemy skulls to make table ornaments for sweethearts, or carved their bones into letter-openers.
    EDIT: Don't take this to mean that you should feel sorry, or that the Japanese were innocent against the big bad Americans. It's just another example of there being no simple "Good vs Evil"

    I wish America continued its isolationist policies, I admire America and its history, it just took a downward turn after 1912, with idiots like Woodrow Wilson and FDR steering it into World Police/"Zionist Mercenary Army" mode

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeternitas View Post
    I have no spoken or unspoken "sympathies" for the Japanese and even find it kind of unfair that all fingers point at Germany as the epitome of evil while the Japanese war crimes, treatment of American POWs and experimentation topics are dealt with with a "silent shame" attitude. e.g. Unit 731 culprits having been pardoned because access to the experimentation data was wanted.
    Yes. Japan can get away with whitewashing their actions in WWII, in their education textbooks, but you say 1 number less than 6 million in Germany and you are locked up.

    This statement rings true, just replace Arabs with Gentile:
    "One million Arabs are not worth one Jewish fingernail."

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    What I think is funny is how I was only able to find one pamphlet and about half a page of text on Nazi - Japanese relations.

    Censoreship?

    Surely there has to be more?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Autosomal Viking View Post
    =================================

    The purpose of this thread has been fulfilled. I saw an inconsistency and I pointed it out. I can't force anyone to change their mind.
    This is good, if you feel you have accomplished something, whether they were the responses you 'expected' or not, although I have a higher opinion of the quality of discourse in some of the insights & observations that were tangents to the main thrust of your post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Autosomal Viking View Post
    If you had read the original post more carefully you would have known from the start that I wouldn't have cared for morality arguments that 'America provoked Japan into attacking.' Low reading comprehension is a symptom of being excessively ethnically mixed, I'm afraid.
    Really AV? argumentum ad hominem assertion that I am a mongrel because you 'don't care for morality arguments' in a divisive post you started, which in itself could be categorized as a morality argument, seems, should I say, a bit saucy of you.

    I'd like to think without this imperfect medium of text, in person we might have gotten along quite well discussing world affairs and the hypocrisies and idiosyncrasies of McWorld over a pint of Guinness or two, but perhaps that is overly idealistic of me. ...or perhaps you just had a bad day.

    I'm with Tom Schnadelbach; the normally high quality of your posts, which I enjoy and applaud, left me expecting a bit more from you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Autosomal Viking View Post
    ...
    Thank you for my first Negative Rep Point

    PM: 'Show your actual Ethnicity!'
    Is that a question? ... or a request?

    ... a little courtesy?

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    Personally I think that if I where to start a thread with regards to American sympathy for jew's of WW2, in the German section non the less, It could be perceived as Anti-Americanism by a large portion of users...
    Although the word "Commando" was wrongly used to describe all Boer soldiers, a commando was a unit formed from a particular district. None of the units was organized in regular companies, battalions or squadrons. The Boer commandos were individualists who were difficult to control, resented formal discipline or orders, and earned a British jibe that"every Boer was his own general".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimminger View Post
    Personaly I think that if I where to start a thread with regards to American simpathy for jew's of WW2, in the German section non the less, It could be persieved as Anti-Americanism by a large portion of users...
    I personally don't think it is a contradiction to be Pro-American (individuals) & Anti-Americanism/"McWorld", but perhaps that is just me.

    It seems like taking personal umbrage at a falsely perceived slight to your country over World War 2 history is a bit much, perhaps unintentionally, belittling those from the generations who actually endured the war & the victory/defeat, and subsequent peace in the new world order.

    I think most of us would not disagree with the notion the war was awful for the common folk all the way round, and it would have been preferable for the countries to have resolved their differences via other means without such a high butchers bill.

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