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Thread: Nothingness After Death

  1. #41
    Eala Freia Fresena
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    the information comes from the book 'The Field' by Lynn McTaggert. Sha has a wealth of more information. She interviewed an reinterviewed the cutting edge researchers and put it into popular language.

    Very interesting book.
    weel nich will dieken dej mot wieken

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    Senior Member Erlkönig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Horned God View Post
    I said a general understanding and I continue to hold that view. We know that information is transmitted through the brain by means of nerve signaling. we know of no other means that that kind of information could be stored or transmitted.
    Considering that we lack the capability to recreate brain tissue, I would say we have an incredibly limited understanding of the brain.


    Nature so far as we know, operates only in the material realm.If it was otherwise then animals would be expected to develop psychic or other supernatural powers because any animal that had such abilities would have a massive survival advantage. The fact that such supernatural abilities are not in evidence strongly suggests that they do not exist.

    Scientific knowledge will indeed continue to expand but it won't be done by people who go around believing wild speculations on no proof at all.
    This entire response is off topic, my point was that observation is limited by ability. Scientific pursuit is based on the search of the unknown, one of the fathers of Scientific Method said "I kow that I know nothing". The ironic truth is science is impeded by stubborn negativists and moralists.
    Life is a well of delight; but where the rabble also drink, there all fountains are poisoned.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erlkönig View Post
    Considering that we lack the capability to recreate brain tissue, I would say we have an incredibly limited understanding of the brain.
    Our definitions of what constitutes significant knowledge are at odds. The be able to "recreate" brain cells or any other type of cell from scratch would require nano technology to be perfected. Just because that has not been done yet does not imply that our understating of how the brain works is inaccurate. Brain cells can however be derived from stem cells they are no different from any other type of cell in that regard.
    Furthermore, our knowledge of how the brain works is supported by the fact that several interventions are now possible to slow down, halt, reverse or ameliorate several brain diseases such as Parkinsons, MS, Alzheimer's, schizophrenia etc.


    In the case of Parkinsons an operation is sometimes possible called "deep brain stimulation". An electrode is placed into the part of the brain that has degenerated and the cells there are stimulated to increase their level of signaling thereby reducing or eliminating the symptoms;

    Deep Brain stimulation in Parkinsons Disease.

    How could a procedure like this be possible if "almost nothing" was known about how the brain functions?




    This entire response is off topic, my point was that observation is limited by ability.
    You are using the fact that certain things are currently beyond our knowledge to imply that reality behaves in a completely different way when it comes to the human brain than it does in any other tissue or substance. In the absence of compelling evidence to support your view, any rational person would have to conclude you are indulging in magical thinking.

    Scientific pursuit is based on the search of the unknown, one of the fathers of Scientific Method said "I kow that I know nothing". The ironic truth is science is impeded by stubborn negativists and moralists.
    Science is the art of the soluble. If a proposition is not testable it falls outside the realm of science. If a statement does not build upon what is already known in science then it will not be given much consideration by serious scientists. This is not because they are "negativists" or "moralists" but because such a proposition will in all likelihood be a complete waste of time.

    As for your scientist who said "I know that I know nothing" I think you are referring there to Socrates, who wasn't a scientist but a philosopher. Socrates was also a man who as with all the ancients said many outlandish and incorrect things as well as making positive contributions to thought. If a statement is not backed up by compelling evidence then it doesn't matter who said it or what else he achieved in his life.All statements stand or fall on their own merits and not on the merits or demerits of the speaker.
    Close observation may result in feelings of horror, wonder and awe at world you find yourself inhabiting.

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    nice video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...glHhTBpks#t=1s

    here a very nice video i found in the net.
    Philosophical consideration of Death.!!!!
    after asking a greek neighbour the translation seems to be not that but, concidering the difficulty grade of the subject.
    He just said the professors words are the philosophical terms
    "EROS" for love but in a more wide meaning than in plain english and
    "THANATOS" for death equally with the same problem of meaning.
    Anyway the subject and his analysis was superb, he could easily have tought in LMU or Heidelberg or Tuebingen or elsewhere in an elite university I think!

  5. #45
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    Interesting (if slightly disturbing) thread. The possibility of an afterlife is one of those things that are impossible to prove, but I tend to agree with these posts:

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Schnadelbach View Post
    I cannot think of anything worse than personal immortality. Even if you go to heaven or Valhalla. After the first couple of trillion years, there would be nothing left to do that you had not done millions of times. Think of the boredom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Vengeance View Post
    Most people are probably terrified of life beyond this life. Consequences would follow. It's bad enough to have a lifetime of contemplating your own fuck-ups, so just imagine an eternity of it. When you're old and sick, you'd probably prefer to be dead forever.
    Living forever, trapped in the same body and personality, doesn't sound appealing to me. Even the idea of death and reincarnation sounds better.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfadur View Post
    2. If they claim that it is because all brain activity will cease, then have they ever experienced this nothingness they talk about? If not, how can they claim that it exists? This is as speculative as assuming the existence of God. No one that I know of has ever experienced nothing. There is always something everywhere. It contradicts the laws of physics.

    Actually, experiencing nothing is not against the laws of physics. What we experience, and what actually happens is not always the same. Take hallucinations as an example. A hallucination could easily defy the laws of physics - it isn't real.

    We can assume that once the brain no longer sends or receives signals, that any sensory input is entirely destroyed. To think otherwise is entirely counter intuitive. Now this doesn't address the possibility of the existence of the soul - something that is entirely only speculative. Upon death, the brain ceases to function, and sensory input similarly ceases. This would result in nothingness. Again - though this doesn't necessarily mean that some form of you will not continue existing.
    "So, yes, we are better than others. Our worldviews are better than those of others. This does not need to be universally true, it is enough when it is true for us." - velvet

    "Our blood unity is of infinitely more worth than religious particularities;" - Chlodovech

  7. #47
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    There is no empirical evidence to support the existence of a soul for the individual human being. Its existence, as stated above, is entirely speculative.

    Again - though this doesn't necessarily mean that some form of you will not continue existing.
    That I continue to exist in some form after my death presupposes something akin to a soul and as a materialist I cannot and do not accept this. Once the individual is dead, he or she no longer continues to exist in any form.
    Between the devil and the deep blue sea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingvaeonic View Post
    There is no empirical evidence to support the existence of a soul for the individual human being. Its existence, as stated above, is entirely speculative.



    That I continue to exist in some form after my death presupposes something akin to a soul and as a materialist I cannot and do not accept this. Once the individual is dead, he or she no longer continues to exist in any form.
    Other than pure speculation, this is the best scientific guess that we have.

    I have personal religious beliefs regarding the matter - but there is no actual evidence to back them up, so they don't belong in a strictly rational evaluation of what happens on death.
    "So, yes, we are better than others. Our worldviews are better than those of others. This does not need to be universally true, it is enough when it is true for us." - velvet

    "Our blood unity is of infinitely more worth than religious particularities;" - Chlodovech

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    My personal thought on this topic is that since from moment to moment you are not identical as a person, that the best we have is continuity, bodily continuity, mental continuity but never sameness, it is genuinely accurate to say that if you have children, you have continued life in the material sense.

    In a spiritual sense I think every time you seek to embody a particular principle you share in the immortality of that principle with everyone who ever did seek to embody it and the more so the more successfully you embody it.
    Denn das Schöne ist nichts
 als des Schrecklichen Anfang, den wir noch grade ertragen,
 und wir bewundern es so, weil es gelassen verschmäht, uns zu zerstören.

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    I agree with the way Socrates proved the immortality of the soul. In that contraries are always produced from contraries, warm comes from cold, awake from sleep, and vice-versa. Death coming from life, it must be that life also comes from death, and the immortal soul must exist in a realm before it can bring life from death, in a cycle. He also considered philosophy to merely be 'reminiscence', of some previous life or experience, which he believed was another proof of the pre-existence of the soul. Then he says that something that is the cause of a Form can never become it's opposite; and concludes that since the soul only brings life, it must then never admit it's opposite, death. Thus the soul would be immortal, as the body perishes.

    That's just my paragraph summary of the Socratic dialogue Phaedo, which I recommend to those interested.

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