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Thread: Nothingness After Death

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfadur View Post
    Indeed, I tend to agree with that. It's one of the main reasons why I started this thread. However, I don't think we'll ever find the answer to exactly what happens after physical death - I doubt human technology will ever go that far.

    The scientist Kary Mullins has a sensible opinion on this, in the interview fragment below. I agree with the opinion expressed in this interview, except that I am not of the opinion as she is that our mind will dissolve completely into nothingness (I have no beliefs yet on this topic, only an intuition). Here is her interview:
    I don’t think a Mathematical Algorithm can dissolve, because it is not there in the first place. What is there is an impression made on a cell, and multiply that trillions and billions of times in an organized system and you have a what could be called a Personality.

    But like a program it is NOT real in any physical way. It is similar to Heisenberg uncertainty principal.

    I’m not sure if we will get there with the software end of it, but it is highly likely we will get there with the computing power of it. That is if you believe in the theories put forth by Ray Kurzweil.

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    Senior Member Erlkönig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Horned God View Post
    While energy can't be created or destroyed, information can certainly become garbled. Atm there is no known medium in the universe that could sustain the consciousness other than structure of the brain and no reason to believe that the one exists.
    Why do you presume that consciousness cannot sustain itself in a form of pure energy.
    Life is a well of delight; but where the rabble also drink, there all fountains are poisoned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erlkönig View Post
    Why do you presume that consciousness cannot sustain itself in a form of pure energy.
    My reasons are two fold; lack of evidence and evidence to the contrary. An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence. However, there is no evidence at all for the proposition that consciousness survives the destruction of the brain. No disembodied consciousness has ever been shown to exist or communicate with us. Nor is there any scientific theory to suggest how such a thing would even be possible.

    On the other hand we have a good general understanding of how conscious operates i.e it is a function of the brain. We also have a theory to explain how it comes about; it is a product of millions of years of natural selection.
    Close observation may result in feelings of horror, wonder and awe at world you find yourself inhabiting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Horned God View Post
    Nor is there any scientific theory to suggest how such a thing would even be possible.
    There is no theory derived from the materialist philosophy that suggests how such a thing would be possible. For the existence of a non-corporeal consciousness it would require either an incomplete understanding of how such a thing would be possible under the basic assumptions of materialism, or discarding said philosophy altogether.

    This I say of course because most scientists today are trained to work under the presumptions of materialism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GroeneWolf View Post
    This I say of course because most scientists today are trained to work under the presumptions of materialism.
    Materialism in this sense comprises everything that exists including matter, energy and the fabric of space time. Therefor everything that can be observed to exist or theorized to exist based on observation comes under materialism. Once you go beyond materialism you enter the realm of philosophy, mysticism and... speculation.
    Close observation may result in feelings of horror, wonder and awe at world you find yourself inhabiting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Horned God View Post
    On the other hand we have a good general understanding of how conscious operates i.e it is a function of the brain. We also have a theory to explain how it comes about; it is a product of millions of years of natural selection.
    Actually we have a very primitive understanding of the brain, most discoveries have been very recent thanks to the use of PET's and fMRI's.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Horned God View Post
    Therefor everything that can be observed to exist or theorized to exist based on observation comes under materialism.
    Much of the known universe cannot be observed using conventional means, advances in technology allowed such things, and thusly it will continue. I think you overestimate your understanding of nature.
    Life is a well of delight; but where the rabble also drink, there all fountains are poisoned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erlkönig View Post
    Actually we have a very primitive understanding of the brain, most discoveries have been very recent thanks to the use of PET's and fMRI's.
    I said a general understanding and I continue to hold that view. We know that information is transmitted through the brain by means of nerve signaling. we know of no other means that that kind of information could be stored or transmitted.


    Much of the known universe cannot be observed using conventional means, advances in technology allowed such things, and thusly it will continue. I think you overestimate your understanding of nature.
    Nature so far as we know, operates only in the material realm.If it was otherwise then animals would be expected to develop psychic or other supernatural powers because any animal that had such abilities would have a massive survival advantage. The fact that such supernatural abilities are not in evidence strongly suggests that they do not exist.

    Scientific knowledge will indeed continue to expand but it won't be done by people who go around believing wild speculations on no proof at all.
    Close observation may result in feelings of horror, wonder and awe at world you find yourself inhabiting.

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    Info isn't conducted through nerve cells.

    Proof:
    Prof Herbert Froehlich of the university of Liverpool, recipient of the prestigious Max-Planck-medal proofed that some sort of collective vibrations was responsible for getting proteins to cooperate together and carry out instructions of DNA and cellular proteins.. the now termed Froehlich frequencies: he proofed that below the cell membranes vibrations of certain frequencys are generated through the proteins. wave communication is the means by which smaller activities of proteins, the work of amino acids, are carried out and a good way to synchronize activities between proteins and the system as a whole.


    I would ask you how the info is coded into electromagnetism and then decoded from electromagnetism into the info?

    that is plain voodoo. And has nothing to do with science, it is junk science.


    Walter Schempp proofed that biological process are quantum processes, that includes information between cells as well as higher functions as consciousness.

    What he terms quantum memory is the memory which does not reside in our brain (short term and long term) but in the zero point field and has nothing at all to do with our brain. (though Laszlo theorizes that the brain is the retrieval mechanism to get the memories stored in the zero point field.

    Heisenberg showed with his uncertainty principle that the mind effects matter.

    so how would it do it of the the consciousness is bound to the brain? Can you explain that to me how brain-confined consciousness effects matter/energies which have no direct connection?

    Princeton's Jahn proofed that one can effect machines with one's will. (he was after how the consciousness can effect the electrons in computers).


    There is a ton of proof now that consciousness is a quantum process and has nothing to do with the mechanics which still spooks in many people's 'brain'. That is science from anno Tobak.
    weel nich will dieken dej mot wieken

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    How does remote viewing work?

    Does it works we know from many experiments from PEAR and SRI.

    that consciousness is not connected to the brain is so plain obvious it is astonishing that the majority still beliefs that statement.

    Consciousness is not connected to the brain and therefore the brain dies and consciousness lives on.
    weel nich will dieken dej mot wieken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocko View Post

    I would ask you how the info is coded into electromagnetism and then decoded from electromagnetism into the info?
    Well Neurons communicate with other Neurons via an electrical signal sent down to the dendrites. But you are right on this point.

    I can not prove that memories are not stored in a quantum field of some sort.

    I was in fact simply making an analogy to a computer where all memory is stored in Zero and One states.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ocko View Post
    Walter Schempp proofed that biological process are quantum processes, that includes information between cells as well as higher functions as consciousness.

    What he terms quantum memory is the memory which does not reside in our brain (short term and long term) but in the zero point field and has nothing at all to do with our brain. (though Laszlo theorizes that the brain is the retrieval mechanism to get the memories stored in the zero point field.
    Ok since you bring it up, this might be a mechanism that is worth exploring as an explanation for various aspects of "Personality" that we see on humans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocko View Post
    Heisenberg showed with his uncertainty principle that the mind effects matter.
    I think what Heisenberg proved was it was impossible to observe a subatomic practical, because the act of observation will always affect the observed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocko View Post
    so how would it do it of the the consciousness is bound to the brain? Can you explain that to me how brain-confined consciousness effects matter/energies which have no direct connection?
    You are asking a question that, needs to be ask to someone that has a degree in AI Computer Science and one in Biological Anatomy of the brain.

    Unfortunately I’m NOT that person, so for now I will have to say I do not know.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ocko View Post
    There is a ton of proof now that consciousness is a quantum process and has nothing to do with the mechanics which still spooks in many people's 'brain'. That is science from anno Tobak.
    Well we do have theories about how to model quantum computers, but at this stage in computer development we are not there yet. Maybe in 50 to 100 years?

    In Any case some of your points deserve consideration so Ill check them out.

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