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Thread: Nothingness After Death

  1. #11
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    Thinking about such questions too much can make you depressive and melancholic, or it can drive you "nuts" for some hours. When my beloved grandmother died some years ago I was thinking a lot about what could happen after death...and where my ancestors could be now. In some way I believe in the faith of our heathen ancestors but we can´t leave the results of modern scientific research out of consideration, that would be naive. These results bring us more knowledge and wisdom but no clear answers. Quite the opposite is the case: The more scientists reveals about life and the universe, the more questions and riddles pop up.

    Just think about the Big Bang: How can can emerge everything from nothing?

    Well, my personal conclusion is that everything has a reason! Our existence has a reason, our planet has a reason, our universe has a reason and the laws of physics have a reason. Just realize that our solar system and our universe is like it is because millions of individual factors fit together in an almost magical way! I´ve read that - if the gravitational force was just a little bit different - there wouldn´t be any planets or stars because the molecules wouldn´t attract each other enough. Or if the atoms had different sets of electrons and protons, the elements of nature would look different. After Big Bang, 99,9999% of all positive matter was destroyed by antimatter in less than a second, but some positive matter remained (that´s all what makes the universe!) because for some strange reason there was a tiny bit more matter than antimatter created by the Bing Bang...WHY?

    Million or even billion of individual atomic, molecular and physical laws and conditions work together in a way that life is possible. Think of it like the most complicated clockwork and multiply it with infinite. <-- Only one single different factor and we wouldn´t be here! This can´t be coincidence, by no way.

    I´m sure there´s more than this. Is there a creator? Is our universe just an experiment by unbelievable creatures who live in a 4D- or 6D space?

    So many open questions, and I expect to get some answers after death. And if not then I can´t care about it anymore, anyway...it´s mind-blowing to think about it. But at the end of the day we´re all stardust because it were the supernovas who created all of the heavy elements necessary for organic life. Without supernovas, there would be only hydrogen, helium and some minor elements. All elements above in the chart were created by nuclear fusion and supernovas.
    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucleosynthesis)

    "Judge of your natural character by what you do in your dreams" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  2. #12
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    You have to understand the spirit in which these sort of things are written, then it all falls into place.

    The resurrection. Before Christianity, the Anglo-Saxons celebrated Spring Equinox, Eostara (Easter), as a time when nature came back to life after 'dying' during winter - trees bud, flowers bloom, birds lay their eggs. Christianity overlaid the existing pagan celebrations at the Spring Equinox with a story of Jesus coming back to life. Of course he happened to be born at Winter Solstice, Yule.

    The afterlife. We enter the afterlife through our descendents. Our children take our form, our essential 'spirit', into the future after we die.

    There is nothing supernatural about spirituality, it is all firmly grounded in nature. When you die, you pretty much die in my opinion.

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    Eala Freia Fresena
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    Depends what kind of facts one accepts.

    People equalize brain with 'I'. When the brain ( basically fat and some nerve tissue) dissolved after death then the person disappears too. The equalization of fat with I is voodoo and not science.

    Thoughts are not materiell and therefore for science they do not exist.

    Well, science is therefore based on things which do not exist according to science. Pretty much nonsense.

    In the 40's some scientists trained mice a trick and then fried some parts of the mouse brain (with the lock-burner of his wife btw) to find out in which part of the brain the trick is stored. They fried all different parts of the brain but the mice could still do the trick. The conclusion was that those things are not stored in the brain.

    There are anyhow connections between the brain and certain functions. but the whole thing is more flexible than expected as scientists learned that other parts of the brain can take over functions from destroyed parts.

    Cutting edge science tells that people can grow new neural pathway depending on their mental/spiritual exercises. What that tells is that the I, the one who thinks develops the brain according to it's thinking. Which means that the brain is the material representation of something non-material.

    The assumption that when the brain dies the I dies too is not logically determined, there are other possibilities which cannot be excluded logically.

    Th one most cultures have is that the body dies away and the spirit continues.

    dr. Kuebler Ross studied dying and death and had many. Experiences proving to her that people live on after death.

    Given that this experience is not so uncommon and can be made by yourself with out-of-body techniques, there is no doubt that people live on.
    weel nich will dieken dej mot wieken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Schnadelbach View Post
    I cannot think of anything worse than personal immortality. Even if you go to heaven or Valhalla. After the first couple of trillion years, there would be nothing left to do that you had not done millions of times. Think of the boredom.
    Well if those places constantly change over thousands - millions of years like on earth and they are like a thousand or million earths, if you could only wander them by foot, then by the time you returned to the place you originally started after exploring every single aspect of the previous lands you would have a completely different geography, plant life, animals and insect life and different way in which every part of that interacts with each other. If reincarnation is a true cycle of nature and we are experiencing it right now, then why since as a young child do we still find ways to entertain ourselves and new places to explore ? Should we not be bored with this Earth which we might have inhabited many times over ?
    Til árs ok friðar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thusnelda View Post
    Thinking about such questions too much can make you depressive and melancholic, or it can drive you "nuts" for some hours. When my beloved grandmother died some years ago I was thinking a lot about what could happen after death...and where my ancestors could be now. In some way I believe in the faith of our heathen ancestors but we can´t leave the results of modern scientific research out of consideration, that would be naive. These results bring us more knowledge and wisdom but no clear answers. Quite the opposite is the case: The more scientists reveals about life and the universe, the more questions and riddles pop up.

    Just think about the Big Bang: How can can emerge everything from nothing?

    Well, my personal conclusion is that everything has a reason! Our existence has a reason, our planet has a reason, our universe has a reason and the laws of physics have a reason. Just realize that our solar system and our universe is like it is because millions of individual factors fit together in an almost magical way! I´ve read that - if the gravitational force was just a little bit different - there wouldn´t be any planets or stars because the molecules wouldn´t attract each other enough. Or if the atoms had different sets of electrons and protons, the elements of nature would look different. After Big Bang, 99,9999% of all positive matter was destroyed by antimatter in less than a second, but some positive matter remained (that´s all what makes the universe!) because for some strange reason there was a tiny bit more matter than antimatter created by the Bing Bang...WHY?

    Million or even billion of individual atomic, molecular and physical laws and conditions work together in a way that life is possible. Think of it like the most complicated clockwork and multiply it with infinite. <-- Only one single different factor and we wouldn´t be here! This can´t be coincidence, by no way.

    I´m sure there´s more than this. Is there a creator? Is our universe just an experiment by unbelievable creatures who live in a 4D- or 6D space?

    So many open questions, and I expect to get some answers after death. And if not then I can´t care about it anymore, anyway...it´s mind-blowing to think about it. But at the end of the day we´re all stardust because it were the supernovas who created all of the heavy elements necessary for organic life. Without supernovas, there would be only hydrogen, helium and some minor elements. All elements above in the chart were created by nuclear fusion and supernovas.
    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucleosynthesis)
    I would say that science is very good at explaining the process of Mater and Energy, but beyond that you get into very sticky Realms in which we as a species have not developed any sort of communication to describe.

    Basically what we do is simply give it a word like Spirit or Super Natural, or Metaphysics. It should also be pointed out that this is also why very advanced ideas in physics such as string theory begin to look somewhat like a religion.

    But this pretty much does not change the fact that we simply cannot explain what we are seeing in those Realms. From a shear mechanical perspective there really is no reason why, most or not all of the data in a persons brain could not be uploaded into another location.

    I would say if you start boiling down the aspect of "What the Soul is" most likely what you will find is that it is a mathematical algorithm which like any other law of physics does not exist in the real world. The brain on the other hand is a biological circuit that gives this algorithm a form.

    The next question you have to ask is, "Is there some form of storage system or aspect that stores this data, or will we create one in the future?"

    If you ask me the invention of the computer will be the watershed moment to the Human Race evolving into something that just a bit different that what we understand now. So in this respect we may have to invent new forms of science that can look beyond the Matter/Energy barrier.

    I think the best way to look at some of this stuff is by starting with the Idea of how civilizations advance and use energy. It is called the Kardashev scale

    I would say that once you get to at lest a type 3 civilization from a physical perspective you are more or less immortal. Meaning you pretty much have control of matter and energy.

    And that would mean the ability to store data from life forms, most likely.

    Not sure if this answers any questions, but I think these are the best principals we have at this point in time to examine this topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocko View Post
    There are anyhow connections between the brain and certain functions. but the whole thing is more flexible than expected as scientists learned that other parts of the brain can take over functions from destroyed parts.
    That is done all the time in Computers it is called a Virtual Machine. Which is a machine running inside another machine, the actual location of the hardware is more or less irrelevant as long as the whole computer at large has the ability to carry it all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocko View Post
    Cutting edge science tells that people can grow new neural pathway depending on their mental/spiritual exercises. What that tells is that the I, the one who thinks develops the brain according to it's thinking. Which means that the brain is the material representation of something non-material.
    I can see this as a possibility as well. Although I do know that if they know the location in the brain, then they can with some degree of accuracy image what you are processing in that location with MRA technology. As Wild as that may sound.

    If you try and extrapolate this technology out to maybe 100 years in the future assuming we do not destroy ourselves, then it seems likely that you will have a type of mental collective among human beings, which is currently a very freaky prospect.

    The benefits of something like this would be enormous on a technological development scale, because they would be able to cloud process concepts directly mind to mind as opposed the way it is done today.

    It would also mean a type of immortality, if those thoughts could be stored.

    The down side of this world will be zero privacy even on your own mind, and currently I do not think most people are ready for that type of world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Schnadelbach View Post
    I cannot think of anything worse than personal immortality. Even if you go to heaven or Valhalla. After the first couple of trillion years, there would be nothing left to do that you had not done millions of times. Think of the boredom.
    -Assuming your material-temporal-cognitive state transcends death into another physical dimension of existence.

    Although it prods at me from time to time, I don't let contemplating the afterlife play too much into my personal philosophy, rather a quote from Marcus Aurelius comes to mind: “Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dvergr View Post
    Well if those places constantly change over thousands - millions of years like on earth and they are like a thousand or million earths, if you could only wander them by foot, then by the time you returned to the place you originally started after exploring every single aspect of the previous lands you would have a completely different geography, plant life, animals and insect life and different way in which every part of that interacts with each other.
    If scientists are correct, eventually the lights are going to go out throughout the universe. All matter will cease to move. Entropy. Cold death of the universe. And we'd have to go on and on and on.
    If reincarnation is a true cycle of nature and we are experiencing it right now, then why since as a young child do we still find ways to entertain ourselves and new places to explore ? Should we not be bored with this Earth which we might have inhabited many times over ?
    Because most children do not remember (most) of their past lives. For them, everything is new.

    I'm personally not sure that this is not someone's computer program. Even if that is only how Jehovah, for instance, made the world. Jehovah might be some pimply faced 16 year old kid, relatively speaking, living in his mom's basement. No, I don't really believe in Jehovah.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Schnadelbach View Post
    I'm personally not sure that this is not someone's computer program.
    I find it interesting that throughout time these kinds of beliefs are generally based on their current understanding of the universe. For one ancient culture the northern lights were created by a fox whipping it's tail into the snow (see Finnish Lapland cultures). For the more advanced, but pre-1970's society the northern lights are created by the solar particles from the sun interacting with he magnetosphere. Now that we can create so much with computers, suddenly the sun and the stars may have been created with computers ... well are computers the end-all, is there nothing more to technology and understanding, but a physical device which has only existed in the main stream for 30 or 40 years ? Remember that we created computers. Computers are a modern day tool, like Mjolnir was to the Old Norse. Mjolnir became a focal point of their relation to the understanding of the universe because of how important it was of a modern day tool, it could perform mythical tasks beyond what an ordinary tool could do. But there was no proof of this beyond a concept and belief. Never did they think computers were one day be created, so when I hear people mention the universe can be related and created based on the tool of the modern day computer I wonder if they recognize one day there will be a more important tool to them, which future cultures will relate to the understanding of the universe, and the stubborn scientific oriented person will declare this future tool the "end-all understanding of the universe".
    Til árs ok friðar

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    I think both theories are mostly false. We have a brain, which stops it's functioning when we die, but that doesn't mean parts of us don't survive. I think it's just that we are existing in a different form, without our brain, which is just a limited organ that allows the soul function in the earth environment. Our experiences, memories, and even elements of our personality get repressed into the "nonphysical" mind (which isn't really nonphysical, but not part of the organic matter we can measure through science). But anyway, there is not "nothingness" after death. It is because we have brains that are wired to allow us to survive in life that we can't understand it. Neither do our emotions, memories, and thinking remain intact like christians or other religionists make it out to.

    BTW, people with head injuries don't always experience signifigant cognitive decline. Sometimes they just have a personality change or just never feel the same. I know what it's like because I think I probably had some minor brain damage from being exposed to a substance in adolesence. My emotions flattened (I looked like I was in a fog), I tried to become more "intellectual" or philosophical, and I acted more agressive. This actually brings up an interesting phenomenon, savantism. This is an example of where, when the physical mind is in decline (either cognitive or other), the "nonphysical" mind takes over for it.
    Under Capitalism man exploits man; under socialism the reverse is true.

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    I'm personally fond of the Finnish concept of "Tenhi", where the dead are unaware that they're dead, and wander around in this world doing what they normally do, just as another dimension of reality. It makes the most sense, perhaps.

    Quote Originally Posted by feisty goddess
    I think both theories are mostly false. We have a brain, which stops it's functioning when we die, but that doesn't mean parts of us don't survive.
    Well, our ''consciousness'' is basically our perception of the real world and our memory, which is filtered through our brain. When we lose that, we die.

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