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Thread: What Is Your Opinion of the Hippies?

  1. #41
    Senior Member Friedrich's Avatar
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    I recently read the 2003 book Drop City by TC Boyle, which is set in a hippie commune in California in 1970 (although the novel is fictional, there was a real Drop City commune in another state).
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drop_City_%28novel%29

    Eventually the commune is closed down by the authorities, and the hippies have to travel to Alaska in a bus, where they encounter a real frontier society.
    Suffice to say that most of them don't last long, although a few individuals integrate into the local frontier society.

    The author clearly knows his original hippies, and it's full of the initial hypocrisy, and shocking behavior (like giving LSD to children), or borrowing out "your woman" for drugs.
    The racism is also exposed, and there's this fantasy in California of living like the Indians, whereas in Alaska the real Indians aren't interested in them at all.
    The blacks are ejected from Drop City, and en route to Alaska the hippies become quite violent when they are taunted by "squares".

    In Alaska they all suffer from pubic lice (one shudders to think what HIV would have done to this generation), but there are bad hippies who were just posing and willing to shoot a bear to get a claw necklace (because an Indian was wearing one, and it looked cool).

    The hippies attracted people prone to violence, and many ended up in cults or more violent movements (one thinks of Manson, Rajneesh or Baader-Meinhof). They were open to some kind of leftist mind-control.

    Not everyone was that extreme, and in popular culture punk exposed the hippie rock musicians as overblown, capitalist hypocrites, who earned millions while singing on war and poverty.

    Of course punk and skinheads arose as a working class reaction to the middle class hippies, but they also moved in two broad directions (leftist and right-wing) and ended up in self-destruction, or with the same dilemma (earning millions for quasi-hippie entrepreneurs like Richard Branson and his Virgin Records).
    But at least they didn't have all the self-righteous psycho-babble.

    Today it's just another post-modern image, and of course the metal-heads combined both punk and hippie elements after the death of 1980's glam rock.

    At present there are no true hippies, at least not in wider SA society.
    Hard drugs like heroin were the death of any hippie ideal,and although the image still has meaning, economic and social realism means that even the young white hippies congregate mainly in white spaces, and they're just as "racist" or race conscious as the next white person. Some admit it, some deny it, but they can easily be challenged.

    What I find far more insidious today is whites into hip-hop culture.

    PS. Oh, just to add on John Lennon - he already gave his anti-revolutionary ideas in the song "Revolution", but some now say he had changed his politics before his death:
    http://rightwingnews.com/uncategoriz...cond-thoughts/

  2. #42
    Senior Member Mööv's Avatar
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    Every subculture is doomed for a disaster and will end up being a cancer to society.

    With such a positive attitude toward degenerate hippies that seems to flow in the nationalist community, no wonder we`re in feces up to our necks while jews step on our heads drowning us in it.
    Lieber tot als Sklave!

  3. #43
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    Žoreišar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haliaeetus View Post
    Every subculture is doomed for a disaster and will end up being a cancer to society.
    Like the contemporary Nationalist movements in Europe, for instance?

    Every great overturn of society have had its roots in some kind of subculture. It very seldom starts off as a conception of the ruling elite, and implemented from top to bottom, as the people 'on top' usually are quite content with the state of affairs at any given time. It is only when they fear the masses' miscontent, that they have any reason to support any kind of change of the status quo.
    A nation is an organic thing, historically defined.
    A wave of passionate energy which unites past, present and future generations

  4. #44
    Senior Member Mööv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    Like the contemporary Nationalist movements in Europe, for instance?
    Yes. They already are falling apart. Unless something changes for better it will all go down the drain.
    Lieber tot als Sklave!

  5. #45
    Senior Member Friedrich's Avatar
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    When looking at the original hippies, they were just a proto-type for all kinds of anti-authoritarian movements.
    There wouldn't be an Internet without them, for example.
    They were certainly not sterile in any cultural sense.
    Of course nobody is proposing that anyone should go back to that radical template (which was in any case just possible with a wider economic bloom to support a counter-culture, and most of the hippies disappeared with a change in economic climate, but not necessarily their ideas).
    In fact, many saw the hippies as reactionary, anti-feminist (hippie chicks were expected to be not only barefoot and pregnant, but also bare-chested) and racist.
    There are many ways to look at one thing.
    The meaning of the word today as leftist (from both self-styled modern hippies and their critics) is a historic judgement.

    Interestingly I was just reading the book Wagner For Beginners (Michael White and Kevin Scott, Icon Books: 1995) which mentions Wagner's first opera to really reach the stage, Das Liebesverbot:

    The story, after Shakespeare's Measure for Measure, is frivolously comic: a head of state bans love and sexual licence in his land but falls in love himself and is revealed a hypocrite.
    But underlying it - for the first time in Wagner's work - is a philosophical position: the hedonistic libertarianism of the Young German Movement which rejected the inhibitions of bourgeois morality in favor of natural freedom and sensual indulgence. A conveniently packaged rationale for his own extramarital adventures, Wagner recycled 'Young German' thinking in his later operas where marriage is usually associated with stagnant relationships in contrast to the ecstasy of less conventional couplings.
    (pp.19-20)

    It is a mistake to think that nationalism or renaissance is stuffy old moralism and dusty old fogies.
    In a romantic sense, renaissance can be radical, ecstatic and vigorous.
    Where would culture really be, if it doesn't throw off some shackles occasionally?
    Perhaps it would be in the Dark Ages, where Islamists want to put it.
    (And the Islamists also use drugs and have all kinds of sex, but it just remains hypocritical, and nothing ever evolves.)

    Some even call the hippies the foundation of neo-fascism in the guise of neo-liberalism (from a leftist and post-colonial view), and even old college professors during the 1960's campus riots in the US, Paris or Berlin often wrote that they never felt so alive.
    It was an electric aura, or atmosphere in a sense, where people questioned the justness of what they were being told by their leaders.
    So ideologically, the hippies didn't really please anybody, but they somehow embodied social and cultural change.

    The hippies brought cults but also the Jesus People, which took Christianity from its Bible-belt swamps, and fused it with popular music, and even the whole medium of stadium rock was later called "Nazi rock" (due to its effect on large amounts of people).
    It brought politics into popular mediums from various perspectives, and gave all groups a voice.
    Without the progression from hippie to punk, I doubt we would have rechts-rock today.
    There would only be civil rights for blacks and black music to entertain white kids, like the 1950s.
    And bringing immigrant workers to Europe already began before the hippies, although with the low numbers and the nature of migrant work it didn't seem to matter much.
    So the legacy is very fractured.

    To leftist hippies today I would show love, and ask them why we never see them amongst the black crowds at ANC events, or the main beaches during the holiday season (which are swamped with blacks). So in SA, if they want to argue politics, I confront them with their own hypocrisy.
    Most multi-culturalists in SA today are old academics, or middle-aged ex-pats from Europe who come seeking black or colored wives, and one honestly cannot argue with them.
    It's one thing to talk non-racist, but the challenge to live with blacks is quite another.

    Today's hippie can be somebody completely different in a year or two, and if other white people don't show them love and compassion they could end up in a cult, or smuggling drugs, infected with a disease, or even dead.
    So people who are rebelling don't need more knocks in that direction.
    With a bit more acceptance they can turn around to "normality", and one should never judge a book by its cover.

    At least with the hippie label one can say: "I've tried that, and it was a bad idea, and now it's time for something better".
    It was a social, and for some, a personal experiment, that was too broad to really be dogmatic in itself.
    And let's face it, shouting "PEACE" at authority isn't going to really bring peace.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Friedrich's Avatar
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    Of course, the "hippies" aren't always to be pitied as victims.

    With real ideological hippies it's a case of ... as soon as they hear you don't agree with them, then they will label you as a "square", or a "fascist".

    They certainly can victimize and oppress people too.

    And since multiculturalism backs them, they can easily turn entire pubs against you, for even a minor difference.

    The Star Trek episode "The way to Eden" was quite interesting in using the concept of "Space Hippies" to show the endearing and dangerous side of the original hippies.


    Space Hippies

  7. #47
    Senior Member SaxonPagan's Avatar
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    I wonder if the Hippies were country-specific?

    I know this cropped up in the lengthy thread we had on Skinheads, where it became apparent (to me at least) that they were not necessarily the same everywhere. It seems logical to assume that even with world-wide movements and ideologies there will still be some scope for national characteristics to play a role.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Friedrich's Avatar
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    Yes, I think they were country specific, and in the US even West Coast/East Coast specific.
    And since then there were many global manifestations of counter-culture, based on tropes around the hippie scene.
    The West Coast "California" Hippy scene is the stereotypical hippy image sold today, centered around the Scott McKenzie song San Francisco, which ironically caused such an influx of people that it killed the original movement.
    The East Coast scene was the Andy Warhol scene and was more artsy and queer.
    I think in Europe it was more political and socialist from the start, and things like public nudity were less shocking.
    So it was regional, but the hippies also started global travel in radical new ways.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Unity Mitford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friedrich View Post
    Yes, I think they were country specific, and in the US even West Coast/East Coast specific.
    And since then there were many global manifestations of counter-culture, based on tropes around the hippie scene.
    The West Coast "California" Hippy scene is the stereotypical hippy image sold today, centered around the Scott McKenzie song San Francisco, which ironically caused such an influx of people that it killed the original movement.
    The East Coast scene was the Andy Warhol scene and was more artsy and queer.
    I think in Europe it was more political and socialist from the start, and things like public nudity were less shocking.
    So it was regional, but the hippies also started global travel in radical new ways.
    The Warhol crowd were not hippies, they were amphetamine users dressed in black. Warhol was a narcissist who worshiped riches and fame and his circle reflected this.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Friedrich's Avatar
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    Yeah you're right, I suppose I should have called them East Coast/West Coast variations on counter-culture.
    A lot of stars used amphetamine, like Janis Joplin.
    But I see your point.
    I think The Doors were quite interesting in that way at a stage, because they combined iconography with hippie elements.

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