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Thread: Would There have Been National Socialism Without Hitler?

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: Would There have Been N-S Without Hitler?

    To demonstrate the other side of the argument [i.e., that a movement like N-S would have been possible without a Hitler], can you think of any movements - whether political or religious or both - that thrived without such a Leader figure?

    If so, we can then compare that with N-S to see if Hitler was essential or not.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  2. #22
    HC-9
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    Post Re: Would There have Been N-S Without Hitler?

    Yes, there would have been NS without Hitler I think!

    The SA under Roehm where the second power behind Hitler. They we´re strong enough to led the way for the national-socialist revolution against the republic and against the KPD-communists.

    On the other hand there are the Strasser brothers, who were very popular, they wanted the true socialist revolution like the SA-men.

    So wee see, there were enough men without Adolf Hitler.

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    Senior Member Prussian's Avatar
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    Post Re: Would There have Been N-S Without Hitler?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    To demonstrate the other side of the argument [i.e., that a movement like N-S would have been possible without a Hitler], can you think of any movements - whether political or religious or both - that thrived without such a Leader figure?
    Without a singular leader or solid core leadership establishment of some kind no movement will achieve the ultimate success and that is meeting their objectives regardless of what they are and you are right in suggesting that National Socialism would have not taken off without a "Hilter" or figure head of authority.

    The success of NSDAP can be judged on it's overall leadership core in most aspects with exceptions to the fact that a Hitler figure in such a scenario could have easily been someone else then Hitler himself, as history shows us the man just so happened to be Adolf Hitler.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    If so, we can then compare that with N-S to see if Hitler was essential or not.
    The character and qualities of the man known as Adolf Hitler were an essential ingredient in it all , however in this I emphasize the fact a man with the same qualities as Hitler himself.
    "Let your love towards life, be love towards your highest hope:
    and let your highest hope be the highest idea of life."
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche~

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    Senior Member Prussian's Avatar
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    Post Re: Would There have Been N-S Without Hitler?

    Quote Originally Posted by HC-9
    Yes, there would have been NS without Hitler I think!

    The SA under Roehm where the second power behind Hitler. They we´re strong enough to led the way for the national-socialist revolution against the republic and against the KPD-communists.

    On the other hand there are the Strasser brothers, who were very popular, they wanted the true socialist revolution like the SA-men.

    So wee see, there were enough men without Adolf Hitler.
    Agreed, I believe that thinking without Hitler that germany would have been engulfed by the cancer of communism does the german people an injustice and in thinking they are somehow incapable of reacting to the changing situation without Hitler in the picture.
    "Let your love towards life, be love towards your highest hope:
    and let your highest hope be the highest idea of life."
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche~

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: Would There have Been N-S Without Hitler?

    Quote Originally Posted by HC-9
    Yes, there would have been NS without Hitler I think!

    The SA under Roehm where the second power behind Hitler. They we´re strong enough to led the way for the national-socialist revolution against the republic and against the KPD-communists.

    On the other hand there are the Strasser brothers, who were very popular, they wanted the true socialist revolution like the SA-men.

    So we see, there were enough men without Adolf Hitler.
    Are you really suggesting that the likes of Rohm and the Strassers had the requisite LEADERSHIP qualities necessary?

    They were "second-power" men, as you put it, because they were not BORN leaders.

    Hitler was a born leader of men.

    Rohm and the Strassers were rudderless without their Fuhrer.

    How is it that Hitler's unique and superhuman qualities are now being doubted?

    Who else could lead like this?

    The One and Only.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: Would There have Been N-S Without Hitler?

    Quote Originally Posted by prussian25_au
    ... a Hitler figure in such a scenario could have easily been someone else then Hitler himself, as history shows us the man just so happened to be Adolf Hitler.
    In a parallel universe it could have been someone else!

    However, in this life there are no rehearsals, and it was Hitler and no one else who was able to lead the revolution.

    Hitler himself intimated that it was He because no-one else was available.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member The Dagda's Avatar
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    Post Re: Would There have Been N-S Without Hitler?

    National Socialism/Fascism is individual to every country as every country has an individual history and culture and of course problems. Hitler, Mussolini, Barres, Szalasi and Pavelich all had the interests of their own countries at heart and that's why their politics was not exactly the same.

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    Senior Member ogenoct's Avatar
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    Post Re: Would There have Been N-S Without Hitler?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    Hitler himself intimated that it was He because no-one else was available.
    That is because everybody else that would have been able was ruthlessly "liquidated" by Herr Hitler! But if Gott Hitler said it, well, it must be true... Brr... I cannot stand the worship of that arrogant Austrian painter.

    Constantin

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    Sorry, but we can't just leave this thread with these final words ^

    I believe that National Socialism was waiting to happen in Germany, whether under this name or something else. Hitler just moulded this particular form of Nationalism to his own requirements and made a lot of it up as he went along (ie as circumstances dictated).

    He was a brilliant strategist and opportunist and the results are in the history books but I think an equally interesting question would be to ask how NS would have evolved in the post-Hitler era.

    The loss of a charismatic leader (..inevitable at some point!) is a considerable setback and as a political ideology would NS have had legs? I'm sure that its main tenets would have lived on in some form, however modified in a changing world.

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    I wonder how NS would have progressed, if at all, under Strasser.

    I don't agree with his more socialist leaning within the movement, but it would still have been interesting to se where it would go had Herr Hitler not come along when he did.
    American by birth, made of parts from Emmingen, Baden-Württemberg.

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