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Thread: Would There have Been National Socialism Without Hitler?

  1. #11
    Senior Member Prussian's Avatar
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    Post Re: Would There have Been N-S Without Hitler?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    Do you mean the Kulturkampf?
    I thought that this was related to the conflict between the Protestant Prussians and Roman Catholicism ,and therefore not a feature of N-S which sought to unite all confessions.
    If you mean something else, then please explain.
    There is nothing overly religious about kulturkaammp and is not related the kulturkampf (the religious struggles of doctrine & church during the bismarck period), kulturkaammp is a huge book on traditional german cultural law that essentially reflects on the ethnic hegemony of the traditional cultural ties of the german people, basically it has everything that could be covered, there is also an simplified small script from it which is relates to everyday living.

    These days it is not a very well known book simply because it's number one rule has been not to expose it's content to outsiders in any degree, but the kaiserreich period kulturkaammp was very dominate finding it's way to become the basis of a lot of laws of the period and it has relevent relation to National Socialism in every degree since the ideological stance of National Socialism is inherent in the pages of Kulturkaammp therefore ideology always reflects upon the laws instituted within a certain state regardless of the particular ideology at hand.

    It is a very sacred & old book and it's contents will remain sacred because the essence of it's beauty is it's unacknowledged existence on a massive scale, yes I do very much agree with you on the stance of National Socialism seeking to unite all confessions whether it be protestant or roman catholic & there are actually prussians that I know of personally that live by the kulturkaammp but actually are roman catholics. No one actually knows who authored kulturkaammp itself rather most believe it is ancient and reflective of the teutonic spirit and beginnings.
    Last edited by Prussian; Tuesday, July 20th, 2004 at 06:37 PM.
    "Let your love towards life, be love towards your highest hope:
    and let your highest hope be the highest idea of life."
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche~

  2. #12
    Senior Member Prussian's Avatar
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    Post Re: Would There have Been N-S Without Hitler?

    As for Hitler being the mainstream success of the NSDAP , this is can be said to be true and I am in agreement with it. But thinking a little deeper into the matter I do not think it is merely of just the man himself but the conciousness inherently in him that made the decisive differences between a mainstream politician or something that was exclusively known as Hitler.
    "Let your love towards life, be love towards your highest hope:
    and let your highest hope be the highest idea of life."
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche~

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: Would There have Been N-S Without Hitler?

    Quote Originally Posted by prussian25_au
    As for Hitler ... I do not think it is merely of just the man himself but the conciousness inherently in him ...
    Would that be the 'Providence' which He Himself spoke of?

    "I go the way that Providence dictates, with the assurance of a sleep-walker".
    [Hitler, 1936]
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member Prussian's Avatar
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    Post Re: Would There have Been N-S Without Hitler?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    Would that be the 'Providence' which He Himself spoke of?

    "I go the way that Providence dictates, with the assurance of a sleep-walker".
    [Hitler, 1936]
    It could be quiet possible, though we can never know for sure considering the fact those were his words and in this he would have had the true understanding to what he meant, we can only in this degree speculate but I think you brought up a very interesting question in regards to his words at a particular point in time and my comments on the conciousness he pocessed and it in my mind is more then likely.
    "Let your love towards life, be love towards your highest hope:
    and let your highest hope be the highest idea of life."
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche~

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: Would There have Been N-S Without Hitler?

    Quote Originally Posted by prussian25_au
    It could be quiet possible, though we can never know for sure considering the fact those were his words and in this he would have had the true understanding to what he meant, we can only in this degree speculate but I think you brought up a very interesting question in regards to his words at a particular point in time and my comments on the conciousness he pocessed and it in my mind is more then likely.
    Then it would be correct to say that Hitler was to N-S what Mohammed was to Islam?
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Post Re: Would There have Been N-S Without Hitler?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    Then it would be correct to say that Hitler was to N-S what Mohammed was to Islam?
    From the philosophical viewpoint it could be said to be so or even possibly not, again we have speculation but at the same time we have his legacy through the impact and energy he put into the process itself.

    I am not sure if religious undertones are valid in this yet at the same time with his reference to "providence" then maybe it is. But what is certain is Hitler himself was undoubtably a key figure in the process of it all.

    I would even go as far to say that traditional & cultural values were in fact the foundation of the NSDAP with Hitler himself being one the key architects & the leading representive of this development backed by others with worthy expertise that added to the fold to produce what we know as the third reich.
    "Let your love towards life, be love towards your highest hope:
    and let your highest hope be the highest idea of life."
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche~

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: Would There have Been N-S Without Hitler?

    Quote Originally Posted by prussian25_au
    From the philosophical viewpoint it could be said to be so or even possibly not, again we have speculation but at the same time we have his legacy through the impact and energy he put into the process itself.

    I am not sure if religious undertones are valid in this yet at the same time with his reference to "providence" then maybe it is. But what is certain is Hitler himself was undoubtably a key figure in the process of it all.

    I would even go as far to say that traditional & cultural values were in fact the foundation of the NSDAP with Hitler himself being one the key architects & the leading representive of this development backed by others with worthy expertise that added to the fold to produce what we know as the third reich.
    Surely we are now agreeing that Hitler was the most important part of this 'architecture' - the 'key stone' in fact.

    Just as many aspects of Islam preceeded Mohammed, it was the latter who gave IMPETUS and FOCUS to the movement.
    Making it effective in his lifetime and a self-sustaining movement after his death.

    The same could be said of Hitler and N-S.

    Similarly, Mein Kampf is to N-S what the Koran is to Islam.

    Any N-S who needs guidance can look up the index of MK and find his answers there.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member Prussian's Avatar
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    Post Re: Would There have Been N-S Without Hitler?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    Surely we are now agreeing that Hitler was the most important part of this 'architecture' - the 'key stone' in fact.

    Just as many aspects of Islam preceeded Mohammed, it was the latter who gave IMPETUS and FOCUS to the movement.
    Making it effective in his lifetime and a self-sustaining movement after his death.

    The same could be said of Hitler and N-S.

    Similarly, Mein Kampf is to N-S what the Koran is to Islam.

    Any N-S who needs guidance can look up the index of MK and find his answers there.
    No more important then the others though he definitely was the key figure and leading hand in it all, without the expertise of others he could quiet possibly have failed to a greater degree in it all.

    It is undeniably important that a leader regardless of who he or she may be has the support and reliance of others behind them, would have Mohammed succeeded in his endeavours if he had not had the support, it is natural that that figure heads of movements regardless of whether it be religious or political are latter admired and are key representative figure to which all others later relate too when thinking of the movement at hand.

    It is correct in saying Hitler certainly was the key figure head of the NSDAP and in later times the state of germany, but without certain individuals brought into the fold to support him his qualities would have amounted to nothing. Take feder out of the picture for one moment and think what would have the NSDAP been without his influence into the program and on early economic policies? It is hard to imagine.

    Maybe in an abstact context you could say that indeed Hitler was under the will of providence and through this his support structure were introduced into the fold in some sort of fate if you could put it that way. But when people think of National Socialism they do indeed think of Hitler.

    In some ways Mein Kampf and the Koran can be seen as similiar in there distinct existence as the core doctrinal & ideological manuals of their respective movements.
    "Let your love towards life, be love towards your highest hope:
    and let your highest hope be the highest idea of life."
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche~

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: Would There have Been N-S Without Hitler?

    Quote Originally Posted by prussian25_au
    No more important then the others though he definitely was the key figure and leading hand in it all, without the expertise of others he could quiet possibly have failed to a greater degree in it all.
    Slight contradiction - a 'key figure' is by definition more important than the others. It was also to His own credit that He surrounded himself with people of 'expertise'; all good leaders must be able to do this.

    It is undeniably important that a leader regardless of who he or she may be has the support and reliance of others behind them, would have Mohammed succeeded in his endeavours if he had not had the support, it is natural that that figure heads of movements regardless of whether it be religious or political are latter admired and are key representative figure to which all others later relate too when thinking of the movement at hand.
    I adhere to the Carlyle philosophy, which says that history is the biographies of great men.
    Without the leading figure-heads, even though there may be an army of experts, nothing will happen.

    It is correct in saying Hitler certainly was the key figure head of the NSDAP and in later times the state of Germany, but without certain individuals brought into the fold to support him his qualities would have amounted to nothing. Take Feder out of the picture for one moment and think what would have the NSDAP been without his influence into the program and on early economic policies? It is hard to imagine.
    I disagree; Hitler was such an effective leader of men that He would have found another Feder, just as Bormann took over from Hess when the latter was captured.
    Hitler NEEDED good people about Him, yes, but He had a knack of finding them again and again.
    Without Hitler the DAP would have remained on the margins in the beer-halls and would then have been crushed by the Communist take-over of Germany.

    Maybe in an abstact context you could say that indeed Hitler was under the will of providence and through this his support structure were introduced into the fold in some sort of fate if you could put it that way. But when people think of National Socialism they do indeed think of Hitler.
    It was Dietrich Eckart was it not, who said that the political aspect of the Thulian movement was looking for a man like Hilter; only such a man could call the tune and fulfill the movement's Destiny.
    That's why Hitler was 'The Man of Destiny'.
    Such figures are very rare in history.

    In some ways Mein Kampf and the Koran can be seen as similiar in there distinct existence as the core doctrinal & ideological manuals of their respective movements.
    Yes, and that is why Hitler is INDISPENSABLE to N-S [unless you can think of another N-S book that can compare with MK].
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member Prussian's Avatar
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    Post Re: Would There have Been N-S Without Hitler?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    Slight contradiction - a 'key figure' is by definition more important than the others. It was also to His own credit that He surrounded himself with people of 'expertise'; all good leaders must be able to do this.
    ....or you could see it as people of expertise are attracted to great men.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    I adhere to the Carlyle philosophy, which says that history is the biographies of great men.
    Without the leading figure-heads, even though there may be an army of experts, nothing will happen.
    This can be seen from both aspects though undeniably the "great men" tend to lead the way, without a great man there is an army of experts and without an army of experts there is no great man.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    I disagree; Hitler was such an effective leader of men that He would have found another Feder, just as Bormann took over from Hess when the latter was captured.
    Hitler NEEDED good people about Him, yes, but He had a knack of finding them again and again.
    Without Hitler the DAP would have remained on the margins in the beer-halls .and would then have been crushed by the Communist take-over of Germany.
    Indeed that is a possible scenario so are many others. Based on Hitler finding himself another feder in such a scenario the same can be applied to germany easily finding itself another Hitler, the theory works both ways.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    It was Dietrich Eckart was it not, who said that the political aspect of the Thulian movement was looking for a man like Hilter; only such a man could call the tune and fulfill the movement's Destiny.
    That's why Hitler was 'The Man of Destiny'.
    Such figures are very rare in history.
    Indeed they are very rare and the Thule society were indeed searching for somewhat more of a certain conciousness and that conciousness they found in Hitler.
    "Let your love towards life, be love towards your highest hope:
    and let your highest hope be the highest idea of life."
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche~

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