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Thread: Recreations of Frisians, Racially Accurate?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BroBro View Post
    Famke Janssen looks very unusual for a Frisian.
    Pigmentation-wise, she certainly does, however the girl on the back right (from our perspective) has similarly dark eyebrows (one cannot see her hair adequately) --- morphologically, probably not the most Frisian, but at the same time perfectly within the Germanic spread, she gives off a Faelid/Atlantid impression; if you told me she were German I wouldn't have any reason to disbelieve you.

    The Georgian girl does look very closely related with the middle girl featured in Frisian dress.
    I strongly disagree, there are distinct, eastern hints. The big point is that features are less pronounced in women to begin with; but also that amongst some notable CM types, especially Borrebies, there is a strong gender dimorphism --- many women falling under that description will undoubtedly look more Alpinoid than others.

    Alpinisation is at the same time a process in my book, not a distinct sub-race per se as regarded the diachronic perspective (but have to be labelled as such in the synchronic perspective) --- in my book Alpinids are reduced Borrebies, East Baltids are reduced Baltids, and Alpinised "quasi-Baltic looking" Brünnids (Ian Stuart Donaldson comes to mind, though he had levels of Dinaricisation as well) are just that as well.



    As such reduced specimens, and most certainly somewhat reduced female specimens will always approach each other more closely than is the case amongst the Neolithic types. The Georgian woman you posted will be met twenty times walking down any random Moscow street.

    This is probably a better example of how even a middle asian azerbaijani is more similar in appearance to many Frisians than the unusual Famke Janssen.
    We see but half of her face, and even then the Azerbaijani clue is nothing to immediately go by. She may have had significant genetic contribution from North-Iranian peoples, as such her morphology may well be owed to a light-pigment recombination of the pigmentational spread amongst the Irano-Afghanid phenotype, some members of whom (some Nuristani, Kalash) have been mistaken as "pseudo-Nordoids" for as long as Anthropological Taxonomy on the net has become a popular phenomenon.




    A Muslim Azerbaijani, middle Asian, with features that look more similar to Frisians than Famke Janssen.

    My point is, I have seen Azerbaijanis that look closer to Frisian than Famke Janssen.[/QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by BroBro View Post
    Does anyone disagree that this man is the best example present of descriptions of old-stock Frisians?
    He is very Borreby, much more pronouncedly so than I even, if that's what you stipulate as the predominant type of "Old Stock Frisians", that must be it.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    Pigmentation-wise, she certainly does, however the girl on the back right (from our perspective) has similarly dark eyebrows (one cannot see her hair adequately) --- morphologically, probably not the most Frisian, but at the same time perfectly within the Germanic spread, she gives off a Faelid/Atlantid impression; if you told me she were German I wouldn't have any reason to disbelieve you.



    I strongly disagree, there are distinct, eastern hints. The big point is that features are less pronounced in women to begin with; but also that amongst some notable CM types, especially Borrebies, there is a strong gender dimorphism --- many women falling under that description will undoubtedly look more Alpinoid than others.

    Alpinisation is at the same time a process in my book, not a distinct sub-race per se as regarded the diachronic perspective (but have to be labelled as such in the synchronic perspective) --- in my book Alpinids are reduced Borrebies, East Baltids are reduced Baltids, and Alpinised "quasi-Baltic looking" Brünnids (Ian Stuart Donaldson comes to mind, though he had levels of Dinaricisation as well) are just that as well.


    As such reduced specimens, and most certainly somewhat reduced female specimens will always approach each other more closely than is the case amongst the Neolithic types. The Georgian woman you posted will be met twenty times walking down any random Moscow street.



    We see but half of her face, and even then the Azerbaijani clue is nothing to immediately go by. She may have had significant genetic contribution from North-Iranian peoples, as such her morphology may well be owed to a light-pigment recombination of the pigmentational spread amongst the Irano-Afghanid phenotype, some members of whom (some Nuristani, Kalash) have been mistaken as "pseudo-Nordoids" for as long as Anthropological Taxonomy on the net has become a popular phenomenon.




    A Muslim Azerbaijani, middle Asian, with features that look more similar to Frisians than Famke Janssen.

    My point is, I have seen Azerbaijanis that look closer to Frisian than Famke Janssen.

    I can see her whole face, only a small portion of the Azeri girls forehead is covered by her head dress. Azerbaijan borders on Iran, and their are some rare types there that are fair and semi-nordid.

    I see striking similarities between the nose, lips, and face shape of the Georgian girl and the German Frisian girl. Ofcourse, the Georgian looks a little more eastern, but this is more due to the style of dress and makeup than facial structure. The 2 girls do not look identical, and the west asian may have a slightly more eastern influence.Regardless, the features are so similar, they look like they could be sisters. I think the biggest difference between these girls and their Frisian counterparts is the style of dress, and the make up, and the tilt of the camera.

    Visually, as a Frisian, Famke doesn't remotely register to me as looking familiar to a Frisian. Perhaps, that is because I identify the faces I grew up with as Frisian. In my opinion Famke is a slender boned Mediterranean.
    He is very Borreby, much more pronouncedly so than I even, if that's what you stipulate as the predominant type of "Old Stock Frisians", that must be it.
    The old Frisians were described as much more robust, or heavy framed than the other nordids with much straighter foreheads.

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    Pictures of Frisian women in traditional dress, frequently shows them in the regional headcovering, which is not really a hat, a scarf or a turban.


    compare this with the girl in azerbaijan

    Yes, I do think some of these Frisian women have striking similarities to the young Azerbaijani in the black head dress. Ofcourse, it is rare to find a girl in that region that has such fair semi-nordid features, enough that she would be visually comparable to some Frisians.

    As a Frisian, I am not insulted to have a very few distant relatives at the other end of the diaspora that stayed behind in Western and Central Asia. It was thousands and thousands of years ago.

    Edit: I do not think that the Azerbaijani or the old painting of the Frisian girl are examples of old-stock, original Frisians. I was merely pointing out what I viewed as a striking similarity between a Frisian girl and a girl in West Asia. I believe that old Frisians were heavy Borreby.

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    Culturally she is Frisian. She may have fallen off the back of a caravan in Friesland. Sometimes her appearance looks like a slender nosed Egyptian, or some middle easterner with a nose job. She has hints of Indian, I believe her skull shape comes from a mixture of Indians, and Egyptians. In my book she looks half Egyptian, half Indian. Perhaps she may also have hints of caucasoid admixture, but she looks like a Gypsy with a nose job.

    Compare to this Egyptian:


    Or This:

    I even see traces of South Central Asian, I believe her skull a mixture of Indian and Egyptian:




    Then contrast with this, pictures of die-hard Frisian women:


  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroBro View Post
    An uncommonly Germanic type girl for an Azerbaijani, central Asian. I would believe she was Frisian before Famke Janssen, by visual identification.
    The dyed blond hair is not germanic trait probably. People use to forget the haircolor is dyed generally nowadays and most of people is incapable to distinguishe the dyed and natural hair colors. Fortunately some familymember of mine have natural blond hair and I hade it when I was child thus I have a little vantage for this, side by side I can miss this of course.

    I have some bad news for you. This individual is polish, Sigrud can spot her Baltid admixture and ancestry absolutey correctly. Her name is Gosia Andrzejewicz. The Google image search is so usefull tool.









    Quote Originally Posted by BroBro View Post
    A west Asian Georgian girl, that resembles the middle Frisian girl in the picture of German Frisian girls in cultural dress. Obviously, at that end of the diaspora, it is uncommon to see these types in Western Asia.
    The eyeshape, the nose, the face hight are different. This girl has Mongolid influence surely and maybe southern influence too. Probably she is one of the lighter middl-eastern individual whos are posted by the middle-eastern to demonstrate they are white...

    Quote Originally Posted by BroBro View Post

    A Muslim Azerbaijani, middle Asian, with features that look more similar to Frisians than Famke Janssen.
    She looks midle-eastern or central-asian. Probably with natural eyebrows her look would more asian. She has Mongolid admixture too. Those eyeshapes are not typical germanic, isnt't it?

    At least I never visit in Friesland however the two middle-eastern individual are not fit in the other place of Europe surely.

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    Dear Wulfaz,

    I never posted a picture of a polish person.

    I contrasted and compared a Georgian and an Azeri with certain Frisians in the Diaspora. I had also posted a "Blonde" Azeri girl that is somewhat similar to the Polish girl, but only similar, not the same person. That girl you featured is obviously not the same one that I posted.

    Neither of the central Asians, or Frisians that resembled them did I claim to be examples of old-stock Frisians.

    I don't see how you think that Polish girl you posted could be the same girl as the Muslim Azeri in head scarf, or the Georgian girl with the light brown hair, or even Azeri_girl_95.

    A common trait among many Frisians is a heavy, downturned lid, that can sometimes appear quasi-asian to an un-trained eye, especially with age. I have this and many other Frisians do as well. Myself, along withother Frisians said the recreations were not accurate because the eyes were not heavy lidded and down-turned.


    Examples of Frisians. Klaske Hiemstra and Janneke Spoelstra. Many Frisians have these eyes. We Frisians consider it to be a unique trait amongst us.

    P.S. Wulfaz, You have even said you do not know Frisian types, and have never made any trips into Frisia. So I do not see how you can possibly say what Frisians do , or do not look like. Frisians were distinct from other Germanic grouped people. I am a Frisian and live in Friesland, and we are not typical Germans, we are even recognized as a minority group.

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    Anne Tjerk Popkema (Burgum, 1975) has released the translation of The Hobbit by J.R.R. Tolkien in Frisian.

    "Frisia

    The Frisians are an ethnic group of Germanic people living in coastal parts of The Netherlands and Germany. In total there are 643,000 inhabitants (2005) and they are concentrated in the Dutch provinces of Friesland and Groningen and, in Germany, East Frisia and North Frisia. They inhabit an area known as Frisia. They have a reputation for being tall, big-boned and light-haired people and they have a rich history and folklore. I'm certain these people will love to read the Hobbit in Frisian to there kids!
    "

    -excerpt the Tolkien Library

    This man translates books into Frisian so that other Diep-Fries can enjoy them in Frisian and read them to their children.

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    I believe that Germanic is only a language classification, and that our ancestors never referred to themselves as Germanics.

    Our ancestors at times allied themselves with neighbouring tribes to defeat a common invader, but remained their own separate identity and even warred with eachother.

    To illustrate that language groupings do not imply that the people have the same origins or even ethnicity. I am including the example that Yiddish is grouped in the Germanic languages group, with modern high German. The Ashkensazi speakers of Yiddish, certainly have predominately different ancestry and are certainly a different group of people.

    Certainly speakers that have linguistically been grouped Germanic can have entirely different origins than other people linguistically grouped as Germanic.

    "Branch of the Indo-European language family, comprising languages descended from Proto-Germanic. These are divided into West Germanic, including English, German, Frisian, Dutch, Afrikaans, and Yiddish; North Germanic, including Danish, Swedish, Icelandic, Norwegian, and Faeroese (the language of the Faroe Islands); and East Germanic, now extinct, comprising Gothic and the languages of the Vandals, Burgundians, and a few other tribes"

    Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/germani...#ixzz1mAJIic00

    Certainly, it is possible that Frisians also have completely different origins than Bavarians, the Hesse, and the Schwabians, and even neighboring tribes. The greatest relation may only be through a degree of fairly recent intermarriage in the last several hundred years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BroBro View Post

    Culturally she is Frisian. [/IMG]
    She doesn't look like she is from the Middle East, India or is a Gypsy
    if that is what you are saying.
    She has been classified here as Atlantid
    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=74185&page=2

    http://forums.skadi.net/archive/index.php?t-79775.html


    Some of the girls I posted did have Frisian surnames after all.
    Westenra, although she is part Irish.
    Anneke Woudstra is from the Netherlands and (Stra is Frisian) although it looks like she has brown eyes.

    Pigmentation of Ancient people is hard to say.
    Everyone says Vikings were blondes and red heads but some had brown and black hair. Everyone says Romans had black hair but some had brown and blonde hair. Everyone says Celt were red haired but some had brown, black and blonde hair. I'm sure it is the same for Anglo Saxons and Frisian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by celticviking View Post
    She doesn't look like she is from the Middle East, India or is a Gypsy
    if that is what you are saying.
    She has been classified here as Atlantid
    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=74185&page=2

    http://forums.skadi.net/archive/index.php?t-79775.html


    Some of the girls I posted did have Frisian surnames after all.
    Westenra, although she is part Irish.
    Anneke Woudstra is from the Netherlands and (Stra is Frisian) although it looks like she has brown eyes.

    Pigmentation of Ancient people is hard to say.
    Everyone says Vikings were blondes and red heads but some had brown and black hair. Everyone says Romans had black hair but some had brown and blonde hair. Everyone says Celt were red haired but some had brown, black and blonde hair. I'm sure it is the same for Anglo Saxons and Frisian.
    Stra can be Frisian, but it does not mean that the ancestry is overwhemlingly Frisian.

    Many people have some Frisian ancestry, but it is only partial. I never claimed none of the people you posted were Frisian only that most looked over-whelmingly Dutch and not particularily Frisian. I do believe the girls may have been of some Frisian ancestry. The first man however, was a total Dutch and not with in the Frisian diaspora.

    Yes, Famke does look like some Gypsies, more so than she looks like the notoriously big-boned, thick-skulled Frisians.

    Classic portrait of a Gypsy:


    Gypsies themselves have a very large range of what they can look like, the fact that they have roamed the earth for so many centuries.



    Versus old Gypsy in Rajastan:


    Artist rendition of a Gypsy woman, artistic stereotyping only:




    Famke's look, her bone structure, is nothing like ancient historical descriptions of Frisians, but much closer to the travelers.

    Famke is a very unusual Frisian, but she would be much more typical of a Gypsy.

    I will always see her as a Gypsy seed and never see her as a Frisian. I have never read one account or looked at one picture in a Frisian cultural museum that looked like her. I see her as a different race to my own.

    You can recognize Famke as a member of your own race, or family, but I do not. I see the Gypsy more than anything else.

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