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Thread: Climate Change Denial Sweeping Into Public Schools

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelcynn Beorn View Post
    I thought it was widely accepted that the Earth hasn't gotten any hotter for the last 15 years?
    Is it widely accepted? Maybe widely accepted in USA, sure not here in Scandinavia where we have seem our glaciers melt away quicker and quicker.

    NASA has released a video which shows a temperature rise.

    EoOrtvYTKeE



    The global average surface temperature in 2011 was the ninth warmest since 1880.The finding sustains a trend that has seen the 21st century experience nine of the 10 warmest years in the modern meteorological record. NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) in New York released an analysis of how temperatures around the globe in 2011 compared to the average global temperature from the mid-20th century. The comparison shows how Earth continues to experience higher temperatures than several decades ago. The average temperature around the globe in 2011 was 0.92 degrees F (0.51 C) higher than the mid-20th century baseline.


    http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/fea...011-temps.html



    Australian Climate Scientist: "The Murdoch Media Empire Has Cost Humanity Perhaps One or Two Decades in Battle Against Climate Change."

    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=144011


    Is There a Scientific Consensus on Global Warming?
    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=144317

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    Senior Member Herr Weigelt's Avatar
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    One thing I've also heard some scientists theorize is that even if humans were to dramatically or even cut altogether fossil fuel emissions, deforestation, cattle outgasings, and chemicals and gases that damage the ozone layer it would still be too late to turn around the global warming trend. Has anyone else heard about that? I have no idea if it's true or not, but I wouldn't be surprised. I think it takes a very long time for the atmosphere to change once it has been altered.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hersir View Post
    Scario, nobody has denied natural variation. What do to they teach in American schools? Seems they have failed in basic science education.
    The US Public Schools are centres for indoctrination by the Left.
    Indoctrination comes first, education comes second.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hersir View Post
    Al Gore just wants to make money where he can.
    Of course not all scientists are behind it, but most are. There are something called scientific funding, and large corporations like BP of course wants to dismiss that they are contributing to mess up the planet.
    I think all Al Gore wants is Power, he already has plenty of money.

    If you want any real change and progress on environmental Issues then it would be best to get rid of the Globalist Crack Pots, such as Al Gore, the Club of Rome, and other NGO's. These people in most respects are in fact the hart of the problem in the first place. Centralized Power, Centralized Manufacturing, enlisting for mass transportation, and Elite that has a need for mass slavery.

    If you want success start from the bottom up, if you want failure start from the top down.

    How much real change could we have bought with 14 Trillion Dollars.

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    Senior Member SwordOfTheVistula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    the US knows an increase by a factor of 17 I think of strong Hurricanes
    Not true. They've only been able to measure since the late 1800s, but the most powerful ever recorded was in 1935:

    http://www.epicdisasters.com/index.p...st_hurricanes/

    1.
    The Great Labor Day Storm
    September 2, 1935
    Florida

    One of just three Category 5 Hurricanes to make landfall in the US, the Great Labor Day Storm had a minimum pressure of 892 millibars (26.35 inches). It caused 423 deaths in Florida. It also was notable for providing the setting for the Humphrey Bogart - Lauren Bacall movie, Key Largo.

    2.
    Hurricane Katrina
    August, 2005
    Louisiana and Mississippi

    Katrina had a minimum pressure of 904 millibars (26.64 inches), making it the second most intense storm to hit the US, as well as the most costly, and the third deadliest.

    3.
    Hurricane Camille
    August 17 - 22, 1969
    Mississippi, SE Louisiana, Virginia

    Camille, a Category 5, was the second most intense Hurricane ever to hit the United States, with a minimum pressure of 909 millibars (26.84 inches). The final windspeed will never be known because all measuring devices were destroyed, but it is thought to exceed 200 mph.

    4.
    Hurricane Andrew
    August 24 - 28, 1992
    Florida and Louisiana

    A Category 4 when it hit Florida, Hurricane Andrew hit Louisiana as a Category 3. At its peak, Andrew had a minimum pressure of 922 millibars (27.23 inches).

    5.
    Unnamed Hurricane
    August 29, 1886
    Indianola, Texas

    This Category 4 Hurricane turned Indianola into a Ghost Town. Today, the Court House lies 300 feet out in Matagorda Bay. The storm had a recorded minimum pressure of 925 millibars (27.31 inches).

    6.
    The Atlantic-Gulf Hurricane
    Florida, Texas
    September 10 - 14, 1919

    This hurricane struck the Keys as a Category 4, and Texas as a Category 3. At its peak, it had a minimum pressure of 927 millibars (27.37 inches).

    7.
    San Felipe-Okeechobee Hurricane
    September 16 - 17, 1928
    Florida

    The fourth strongest Hurricane to hit the US mainland caused a lake surge on the inland Lake Okeechobee in Florida that rose as high as nine feet, flooding nearby towns. A Category 4, it had a minimum pressure of 929 millibars (27.43 inches)

    8.
    Hurricane Donna
    September 8 - 13, 1960
    Florida to New England

    Donna is the only hurricane known to have produce hurricane-force winds in Florida, the Mid-Atlantic states, and New England. At its peak, it had a minimum pressure of 930 milibars (27.46 inches).

    9.
    Unnamed Storm
    September 30, 1915
    New Orleans, Louisiana

    This unnamed Category 4 Storm reached a minimum pressure of 931 millibars (27.49 inches). It flooded Lake Pontchartrain, causing it to overflow its banks and killing 275 people.

    10.
    Hurricane Carla
    September 11, 1961
    Texas

    A Category 4, Carla had a minimum pressure of 931 millibars (27.49 inches), tying it with the 1915 Louisiana storm.


    Quote Originally Posted by Æmeric View Post
    If you are of a certain age you can remember when the "Climate Change" scare was about the coming Ice Age!


    Quote Originally Posted by Sigyn View Post
    All this about "sun spots" changing our climate rings very hollow.
    That makes no sense at all. The entire climate depends on the existence of the Sun, so obviously any change in behavior of the Sun is going to have an effect on the climate.
    Contact Congress on immigration
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Weigelt
    One thing I've also heard some scientists theorize is that even if humans were to dramatically or even cut altogether fossil fuel emissions, deforestation, cattle outgasings, and chemicals and gases that damage the ozone layer it would still be too late to turn around the global warming trend.
    Ozone layer depletion and global warming are two separate issues.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Angelcynn Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hersir View Post
    Is it widely accepted? Maybe widely accepted in USA, sure not here in Scandinavia where we have seem our glaciers melt away quicker and quicker.
    I'm not American and never have been, so that's largely irrelevant to me. However whether global warming claims are true has little to do with whether one is Scandinavian or not, it's simply a matter of examining the data.

    The world leaders who met at the United Nations to discuss climate change on Tuesday are faced with an intricate challenge: building momentum for an international climate treaty at a time when global temperatures have been relatively stable for a decade and may even drop in the next few years.

    ....

    The recent spate of years with stable temperatures is particularly noticeable because it followed a seesawing from unusually cool temperatures to unusually hot ones in the 1990s, said Vicky Pope of Britain’s climate agency, called the Met Office.

    The 1991 eruption of Mount Pinatubo in the Philippines had a cooling influence, as the volcano threw off veil-like emissions. Then, in 1998, an El Niño episode in the Pacific Ocean set off a record-setting hot spell.

    The global average temperature is now only 0.13 degree Fahrenheit higher than it was in 1999, according to the British meteorology office.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/23/sc...th/23cool.html

    Current estimates by the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) show 2005 as the second warmest year, behind 1998 with 2003 and 2010 tied for third warmest year, however, “the error estimate for individual years ... is at least ten times larger than the differences between these three years.”[33] The World Meteorological Organization (WMO) statement on the status of the global climate in 2010 explains that, “The 2010 nominal value of +0.53 °C ranks just ahead of those of 2005 (+0.52 °C) and 1998 (+0.51 °C), although the differences between the three years are not statistically significant...”[34]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming

    But here it starts getting messy and, perhaps, a little inconvenient for some. Looking at the global temperatures as used by the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the UK’s Met Office and the IPCC (and indeed Al Gore) it’s apparent that there has been a sharp rise since about 1980.

    The period 1980-98 was one of rapid warming – a temperature increase of about 0.5 degrees C (CO2 rose from 340ppm to 370ppm). But since then the global temperature has been flat (whilst the CO2 has relentlessly risen from 370ppm to 380ppm). This means that the global temperature today is about 0.3 deg less than it would have been had the rapid increase continued.

    For the past decade the world has not warmed. Global warming has stopped. It’s not a viewpoint or a sceptic’s inaccuracy. It’s an observational fact. Clearly the world of the past 30 years is warmer than the previous decades and there is abundant evidence (in the northern hemisphere at least) that the world is responding to those elevated temperatures. But the evidence shows that global warming as such has ceased.
    http://www.newstatesman.com/scitech/...ng-temperature



    Yet, in its paper, the Met Office claimed that the consequences now would be negligible – because the impact of the sun on climate is far less than man-made carbon dioxide. Although the sun’s output is likely to decrease until 2100, ‘This would only cause a reduction in global temperatures of 0.08C.’ Peter Stott, one of the authors, said: ‘Our findings suggest a reduction of solar activity to levels not seen in hundreds of years would be insufficient to offset the dominant influence of greenhouse gases.’

    These findings are fiercely disputed by other solar experts.

    World temperatures may end up a lot cooler than now for 50 years or more,’ said Henrik Svensmark, director of the Center for Sun-Climate Research at Denmark’s National Space Institute. ‘It will take a long battle to convince some climate scientists that the sun is important. It may well be that the sun is going to demonstrate this on its own, without the need for their help.’
    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...#ixzz1l2tr8O2L

    What's interesting about this is that the average temperature for 2011 is about the same as the average temperature for 2000. According to your own map.

    Australian Climate Scientist: "The Murdoch Media Empire Has Cost Humanity Perhaps One or Two Decades in Battle Against Climate Change."

    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=144011
    Please don't tell me you consider this as evidence? It's a column long ad hominem against those who don't buy the alarmist agenda. It even says outright in the first few paragraphs that it thinks people shouldn't be allowed to see both sides of the argument and make up their minds for themselves.

    Is There a Scientific Consensus on Global Warming?
    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=144317
    No, there isn't. That much is patently obvious to anyone who spends any time studying the data and the controversies surrounding it. It's obvious to anyone who saw how the scientists at the heart of "climategate" squirmed when they had to admit they were falsifying data to make the case for global warming stronger.

    And also the last paragraph you posted, was once again nothing but a personal attack on those who dare to disagree. Accusing people who disagree with the global warming agenda as being being "malicious" and trying to throw mankind into an abyss is about as unscientific and childish as it gets.
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  7. #37
    Senior Member Angelcynn Beorn's Avatar
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    Also Hersir, if you don't mind, i'd like to answer some of the points we were discussing via PM as it saves having a three way conversation on the same subject.

    Temperature rising in both Northern and Southern hemispheres -

    The temperature in both hemispheres are intrinsically linked to one another. I don't think i've ever seen a climate graph showing the temperatures in the Northern and Southern hemispheres going in widely different directions. So i have to question your claim that prior to the last few decades, the temperature in the 2 hemispheres were independent of each other.


    Not needing to see the evidence against global warming claims -

    This situation is the same in the UK too, and as far as i know it's the same in all western countries. But global warming is a bastion of liberal ideology, and like the other bastions of liberal ideology - feminism, equal rights, multiculturalism, the non-existence of race, etc - it is protected and promoted by the education system without any allowance of questioning it. It's a very simple and underhand way that liberals try and insure that their beliefs will take over in the end, by pumping them into the heads of children whilst they are still young enough to accept them without question.

    But any intelligent, and independent minded person should always take the time to examine the evidence for themselves, both for and against, any position they believe in, in my opinion.
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    Hundhedensk "Friend of Germanics"
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    It is getting warmer. Doesn't matter how you squirm, it won't alter that fact.

    Climate scientists are reliant on the accuracy of their climate models. The basic physics says that CO2 (0.039% of atmosphere) will cause a small but unnoticeable difference to the climate. Climate scientists models say that our climate will change dramatically because although CO2 causes a small difference to temperature, this difference increases the amout of water vapour in the air, which pushes up the temperature more. This feedback effect then warms the planet dramatically
    Water vapour is the strongest green house gas. But it also causes global dimming, so it might be harder to see the negative effects.

    Here's a list of the warmest years we have recorded:
    • 2005
    • 2010
    • 1998
    • 2003
    • 2002
    • 2006
    • 2009
    • 2007
    • 2004
    • 2001
    • 2008
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumental_temperature_record#Warmest_ years

    Sorry, but I think I prefer my science from scientists, rather than from a capitalist...

    It's not a question of belief. It a question of science.

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    No, there isn't. That much is patently obvious to anyone who spends any time studying the data and the controversies surrounding it. It's obvious to anyone who saw how the scientists at the heart of "climategate" squirmed when they had to admit they were falsifying data to make the case for global warming stronger.
    These scientists who deny allow something else - money, political dogma or religious belief - to dictate the science. That is unscientific.

    So all the scientific unions in the world (every single one), full of some of the best scientific minds on the globe, have been misled?

    Are you serious?

    The accepted science stands until you write better science. Write your study.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hersir View Post
    These scientists who deny allow something else - money, political dogma or religious belief - to dictate the science. That is unscientific.

    So all the scientific unions in the world (every single one), full of some of the best scientific minds on the globe, have been misled?

    Are you serious?

    The accepted science stands until you write better science. Write your study.
    Here is the Problem I see.

    Petroleum is God to the Modern World

    Oil or Petroleum is the Modern equivalent to Gold. Oil drives everything from our cars, to factories, to our Armed Forces.


    Oil Drives the Economy, and therefore Oil Drives Money.
    Money is the major influence over science in regards to grants. So therefore Oil drives science, on the industrial level.

    I should also mention that Oil Drives and has driven people like the Rockefeller Dynasty, who had the major part of making us dependant on it from an energy stand point.

    The issue is that if you want to Clean up the Environment then you have to change the way we use energy and what energy we use. Thorium Nuclear plants should take predominance over the Light water Uranium plants of the Cold War. Thorium is cleaner and safer and does not produce the wast that the old Uranium plants did.

    Vehicles should be converted to run cleaner fuels such as Ethanol or even better be run off electricity.

    For Air Travel we could switch form the fuel hungry jet Airliners to Solar Electric Airships.

    The Military Industrial Establishment could be re-purposed for things like Space Exploration or other task.

    I hate to be a pessimist though, I thing those in power, especially the ones in the UN will fight tooth and nail any real initiative in favour of their view of global utopia of Multicultural Marxism.

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