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Thread: Climate Change Denial Sweeping Into Public Schools

  1. #21
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    It is also known that Mars surface temperature has gone up in past years, does this mean humans had something to do with it? I sat and watched Al Gores show, and even in it, he proved that the Earth though thousands of years, goes through heating up and lower of temperatures. Now I'm not saying that humans aren't polluting the atmosphere, we are. And as long as humans live on Earth, we will always do damage to the environment just by living. But for Climate Change, not everyone believes it, as not all scientists are behind it.

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    Climate Change Denial

    will they make it illegal?

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    The general lack of intelligence of global warming denials tends to put people off even the more legitimate arguments fighting the 'Dubya' corner. There should always be alternative hypotheses, rival theories, healthy criticism of methods and the findings they produce etc. That's simply good, honest science. But most people naturally switch off to things like, "GLOBAL warming IS a MYTH told BY jews SO that THEY can SELL hybrid CARS and KILL us ALL!!!2!!" and "THE earth WAS cold IN the ICE AGE and THEN warmed UP without THE help OF humans THEREFORE man CAN'T influence THE climate!!!2!!"

    And this is why people with no credentials, including myself, have nothing to offer the debate -- and wouldn't even try to force an opinion out of thin air had the issue stayed firmly within scientific circles and not transplanted itself to that sweaty medley of throwaway opinions known as the world of politics.

  4. #24
    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger
    I was referring to sun activity (missing sunspots), which is at an unexpected low since a few years, and which was not taken into account by any predictive model.
    As a whole, the models are quite easily challenged (I actually worked at the development of some ).
    Funny that "missing solar spots" say little about sun's other activities. Solar Flares for example, which are right now quite strong. 2012 also hasnt seen any spotless days yet.

    Well, maybe the sun does help us coincidentially to stop the trend of global warming if it goes into a phase of lower activity, that though shouldnt mean that we can or should continue to pollute the atmosphere and our environment like we did since industrialisation.

    That's not a solution, that's the easy way out and only serves to prove how ignorant humans want to be towards the mess they create.

    We do change global weather on various levels. We create giant Dead Water zones, we chop down the rainforests, the US knows an increase by a factor of 17 I think of strong Hurricanes, the monsoon in India also changed its behavior, the permafrost is melting in Siberia, weather becomes more chaotic by the year, cities create their own microclimate, and the bigger the city, the greater the area which they influence, and countless other little things we influence and mess up. To think that a little lower sun activity is going to solve all those problems is at best naive, even if it may contribute to a halt in global warming. The particles of pollution themselves change the atmosphere, how and how much sun light reach earth, with reduced sunlight, the photosynthesis will be reduced, lower photosynthesis will result in less oxygene and at the same time, the toxic elements like Co2 increase. The effect then is the very same, earth will have a highly toxic and life hostile atmosphere, irrespective of the temperature.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scario View Post
    It is also known that Mars surface temperature has gone up in past years, does this mean humans had something to do with it?
    No, it is the result of more heat being released by the Sun. Solar activity likely has more to do with climatic variations over the eons then any other factor.

    The weather that many are calling evidence of global warming was considered normal during the Medieval Warm Period. This was centuries before the industrial age the human population was below 500 million so there was a lot less livestock releasing methan gases. When the MWP ended there was a sharp drop in population across Europe as the new normal "Little Ice Age" was unable to support the same number of persons as agricultural land became less productive - because of shorter, cooler, growing seasons - & valleys in the Alps & in Scandinavia filled with glaciers.

    The whole "Global Climate Change" agenda is not about saving the planet, it is about creating international, unaccountable agencies that will exist to enforce a tyranny on mankind in the name of enforcing regulations to save the world.

    If you are of a certain age you can remember when the "Climate Change" scare was about the coming Ice Age!


  6. #26
    Senior Member Sigyn's Avatar
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    I don't have any "definite and final opinion" about global warming, mainly because I haven't researched the subject enough and know to be quiet when I'm not an expert on the topic.

    But like most nationalistic people, and most North Europeans in general, I care a lot about the natural environment and feel worried by what is happening. I find it hard to believe that the planet's environment is not affected in a bad way by oil drilling, factories spewing tons of poisonous smoke into the atmosphere, rainforests being chopped down, and the Arctic ice melting.

    Quote Originally Posted by �meric View Post
    The whole "Global Climate Change" agenda is not about saving the planet, it is about creating international, unaccountable, agencies that will exist to enforce a tyranny on mankind in the name of enforcing regulations to save the world.
    All this about "sun spots" changing our climate rings very hollow. I do think the environmentalist agenda is right in many regards (mankind does need to be regulated to some extent), although it's a shame they've allied themselves to internationalist left-wing politicians (and all other multiculturalists who exist at the "leftist" end of the political spectrum).

    Hamar Fox was completely right in his posts. It's always, always the complete idiots, American neo-cons, and capitalists-with-an-agenda (often those groups overlap) who show us "proof" that global warming doesn't exist, and is not man-made. I have yet to see a real scientist, without a corporate agenda, come up with evidence that refutes climate change.

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    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Æmeric
    The whole "Global Climate Change" agenda is not about saving the planet, it is about creating international, unaccountable agencies that will exist to enforce a tyranny on mankind in the name of enforcing regulations to save the world.
    No, they're enforcing regulations to be able to continue to make profit from enslaved mankind. They give a damn f#*n shit about the planet.

    To conclude from there that climate change or the problems of pollution arent real is quite folly though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigyn View Post
    Hamar Fox was completely right in his posts. It's always, always the complete idiots, American neo-cons, and capitalists-with-an-agenda (often those groups overlap) who show us "proof" that global warming doesn't exist, and is not man-made. I have yet to see a real scientist, without a corporate agenda, come up with evidence that refutes climate change.
    There are currently over 31,000 signatories to the Oregon Petition, which was set up specifically to disprove the alarmist claim that there is a scientific consensus on global warming, are you honestly saying you think all 31,000 have been paid off?

    Petitioners were also requested to list their academic discipline. As of 2007, about 2,400 people in addition to the original 17,100 signatories were "trained in fields other than science or whose field of specialization was not specified on their returned petition."[19] The petition sponsors state the following numbers of individuals from each discipline:[2]

    Atmospheric, environmental, and Earth sciences: 3,697
    Computer and mathematical sciences: 903
    Physics and aerospace sciences: 5,691
    Chemistry: 4,796
    Biology and agriculture: 2,924
    Medicine: 3,069
    Engineering and general science: 9,992
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Petition

    If questionable funding immediately disqualifies all scientific evidence produced by the person in question, the the PRO global warming crowd are in real trouble. Hundreds of scientists make their full time living based on the idea that global warming is real, and their jobs, posts, and funding for projects, are all based on the assumption that it is real and that they must find evidence to solve it. The odd state funded scientist here and there who puts honesty before job security, and sticks his head above the parapet to declare he questions the global warming claims, is immediately threatened with losing his funding and his job.

    Even the successful and well established multi-millionaire Michael Crichton took a stand against the global warming alarmists, was he bought off as well? Was the channel 4 documentary i posted earlier, produced by an independent and left wing TV channel, paid off by oil companies as well?

    More importantly, you're an intelligent person and you know what the term ad hominem means. Well that is all that the attacks on the supposed motives of those who question the alarmists are. It distracts attention from any uncomfortable facts they turn up that the alarmist crowd would like to avoid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Funny that "missing solar spots" say little about sun's other activities.
    So? I wasn't implying otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Well, maybe the sun does help us coincidentially to stop the trend of global warming if it goes into a phase of lower activity, that though shouldnt mean that we can or should continue to pollute the atmosphere and our environment like we did since industrialisation.
    My point was simply that predictive models don't take that into account, and thus most predictions are highly speculative.
    Another thing is that climate models model the oceanic and atmospheric circulations, the effect of the land mass on our climate is a simple parameter.
    Again, I am not denying a climate change, nor do I even dispute a human contribution to it, I am merely stating that you can't know what will happen, not through current scientific models.
    E.g. current models predicted an extension of current desserts, now we actually can observe that some deserts even shrink and turn into savannahs (again!).
    As a side not, roughly 6000 years ago, a time where the average temperature was much higher than today, the Sahara was mostly a savannah.
    I am just saying people shouldn't run around pretending they know what will happen, this is usually only done to scare governments and force them into action.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scario View Post
    It is also known that Mars surface temperature has gone up in past years, does this mean humans had something to do with it?. But for Climate Change, not everyone believes it, as not all scientists are behind it.
    Scario, nobody has denied natural variation. What do to they teach in American schools? Seems they have failed in basic science education.

    Al Gore just wants to make money where he can.
    Of course not all scientists are behind it, but most are. There are something called scientific funding, and large corporations like BP of course wants to dismiss that they are contributing to mess up the planet.

    and even in it, he proved that the Earth though thousands of years, goes through heating up and lower of temperatures.
    Again, nobody has denied it. But we have never had a warming both at the south and north of equator at the same time.

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