View Poll Results: Was the reaction justified?

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  • Indeed, it was fully justified.

    48 97.96%
  • No, it wasn´t necessary and/or an overreation

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Thread: Woman Kills Intruder Breaking Into Her Home

  1. #41
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    The only thing bad about this whole case is that she did not get both of them. People like these criminals are a burden on decent folk and the rest of society. Keep in mind these are two men who planned this break in due to her loss of a husband. They stalked this poor young woman and thought she was vulnerable. The one that got shot deserved what he got, and the other should get the same.

    Why should we now have to feed this scum for a number of years while he plans new crimes?
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

  2. #42
    Senior Member CruxClaire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Æmeric View Post
    Law enforcement officials can shot to kill if someone threatens them with a knife. The fact that your weapon is superior to the assailant's weapon makes no difference.

    Maybe they are/were just stupid. Or they thought the woman was a bad shot or too scared to shoot straight.



    During the fractional second taken to fire a warning shot the intruders could have closed in & overpowered her before getting the chance to fire again. This ordeal went on for over 20 minutes before they got into the house, they had plenty of time to abort their attempted robbery (and rape?).

    The alternate scenerio you suggest as preferable to the actual outcome is unlikely, simply because the intruders did not think there would be any deadly consequences for themselves. They spent over 20 minutes trying to gian entry to a house that they knew someone was in & was resisting the attempted robbery. The only way to stop those two men was by shooting them.
    I'm not saying that what she did was wrong. People are replying to things I said in such a way that it almost seems like they think I'd want the woman prosecuted for that. I'm just not certain that killing was absolutely necessary. There are other alternate scenarios that don't involve killing. For example, she could have shot both in the legs to stop them from advancing or running away. Their wounds would probably have not killed them; however, they would've hurt like hell, and I think horrible pain and possible disability would make an appropriate punishment.

    Also, just because police can legally shoot to kill if someone is wielding a knife weapon, doesn't mean they should or do if they see a working alternative. Usually, they will warn the offender that he/she will be shot and give him/her a chance to surrender before actually shooting.

    I think it was slightly extreme of her to shoot as soon as the intruders stepped through the door because she was shooting fatally without giving them a chance to surrender. If we look at this in an "eye-for-an-eye" way, I think it's uncertain whether breaking into private property, armed, constitutes a killing without warning. I do, however, agree that the intruders were scum and deserved some sort of severe punishment. I won't right-out deny that the best punishment for them was being shot, but I also won't agree that they deserved death.

    Also, you said that they weren't expecting to die, which is exactly why I don't think they would be willing to risk their lives further to advance or flee from a woman who has a gun pointed at their heads.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CruxClaire View Post
    Also, you said that they weren't expecting to die, which is exactly why I don't think they would be willing to risk their lives further to advance or flee from a woman who has a gun pointed at their heads.
    And you think that would have been that? The intruders having some mind-alterating, religious experience that turned their lives around. Or do you think they would have ran off, gone home, woken up the next morning and attempted the exact same thing on some other poor family, single mother or old couple?

    One should never pass such a good opportunity as this one to rid the World of yet another inspiring, psychopathic violator, with their ever increasing numbers and presence in our communities. In fact, I'd blame her if she would have.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CruxClaire View Post
    For example, she could have shot both in the legs to stop them from advancing or running away. Their wounds would probably have not killed them; however, they would've hurt like hell, and I think horrible pain and possible disability would make an appropriate punishment.
    Aiming for the torso is standard in self-defense. It is harder to aim for the extremities (arms, legs, head) because they are smaller & it is harder to hit a moving target then one that is stationary, such as at a shooting range. Also if the intruders were armed they could have fired back if hit in the leg. And lastly, Sarah McKinley did not ask permission to kill the intruders but to shoot them - her shot just happen to be fatal.

    Also, just because police can legally shoot to kill if someone is wielding a knife weapon, doesn't mean they should or do if they see a working alternative. Usually, they will warn the offender that he/she will be shot and give him/her a chance to surrender before actually shooting.
    Mrs. McKinley is not a trained law-enforcement officer. It is easy to say she should have done this or that after the event but as they were unfolding she reacted as most people would have in the same situation with the means (rifle & handgun) to defends themself & child.

    I think it was slightly extreme of her to shoot as soon as the intruders stepped through the door
    I think she showed restrant by waiting for them to enter the house.
    because she was shooting fatally without giving them a chance to surrender.
    She was shooting defensively, the shot just happened to be fatal. And besides one of the intruders got away so she wasn't exactly bloodthirty.

    If we look at this in an "eye-for-an-eye" way, I think it's uncertain whether breaking into private property, armed, constitutes a killing without warning.
    Deadly force can be used to stop a crime in progress. The intruders are at fault here, that is why Dustin Stewart is the one charged with murder.
    Also, you said that they weren't expecting to die, which is exactly why I don't think they would be willing to risk their lives further to advance or flee from a woman who has a gun pointed at their heads.
    But they were willing to take that chance & Justin Martin lost his life.

    Man free on bail, days after Oklahoma woman kills alleged intruder's accomplice


    A man who allegedly tried to break into the home of a recently widowed Oklahoma woman -- who shot and killed his alleged fellow intruder after calling 911 -- was freed Thursday on bail despite a first-degree murder charge, a court clerk said.

    Although he did not fire the fatal shot, 29-year-old Dustin Louis Stewart is charged with first-degree felony murder in the incident because if someone dies during the commission of certain crimes, such as burglary, an alleged accomplice can be charged in the death, prosecutors have said.

    A hearing for Stewart was held Thursday in the central Oklahoma city of Chickasha, five days after the incident. During that hearing, Stewart posted the $50,000 bond and was released, Grady County court clerk Jessica Pickle told CNN.

    Prosecutors recommended that $50,000 be set as the bail amount, according to a court document. Stewart was ordered not to have any contact with the alleged victim -- in this case, Sarah Dawn McKinley, who fired the fatal shot -- and to appear next in court the morning of January 20.

    A preliminary hearing in the case is set for May 23, the document signed by Stewart states.

    The incident has caught the nation's attention because part of the action was captured during a 911 conversation.

    Home alone with her 3-month-old son, McKinley of Blanchard, Oklahoma, said she decided to make a stand when the two men tried to break into her home on New Year's Eve.

    McKinley, who had been widowed less than a week before, placed a couch in front of one door and went to the bedroom and put a bottle in her baby's mouth before calling 911, she said on HLN's "Dr. Drew" on Wednesday.

    A 911 operator calmly spoke with McKinley, who asked if it was permissible to shoot an intruder, officials said.

    "I've got two guns in my hand. Is it OK to shoot him if he comes in this door?" asked McKinley, 18.

    "Well, you have to do whatever you can do to protect yourself," dispatcher Diane Graham responded. "I can't tell you that you can do that, but you do what you have to do to protect your baby."

    In the end, McKinley fired a 12-gauge shotgun and killed Justin Shane Martin after he entered her home, according to a Blanchard Police Department affidavit filed in court Wednesday. Martin was armed with a knife, authorities said.

    "You have to make a choice, you or him. I chose my son over him," McKinley said to CNN Oklahoma City affiliate KWTV.

    First Assistant District Attorney James Walters told CNN that McKinley will not be charged because she acted in self-defense.

    "A person has the right to protect themselves, their family and their property," Walters said.

    As for the 911 operator's guidance?

    "I would agree with that advice," the prosecutor said.

    It's not uncommon for charges to be filed against an alleged accomplice in cases where two people are committing a crime and a death occurs, even that of a co-conspirator, said Trent Baggett, assistant executive coordinator at the Oklahoma District Attorneys Council.

    "It's all dependent upon if the situation warrants it and the facts warrant it," he said. "... If in the commission of a qualifying offense, someone gets killed, then yes, (first-degree murder charges) can and probably will be filed upon the person who doesn't die."

    Even if they didn't pull the trigger themselves? "Under Oklahoma law, it doesn't matter," Baggett said. And people have been convicted of first-degree murder under such circumstances, he added.

    Graham was the first of two 911 operators to speak with McKinley.

    The dispatcher told HLN's Jane Velez-Mitchell on Wednesday she learned in training that she could not tell a caller to shoot someone but, "as a mother, I wanted her to protect her baby."

    "She did a very good job in keeping her (McKinley) calm," Grady County Sheriff Art Kell said of Graham. "Her job is to make sure the person on the phone is comfortable ... to give them support."

    McKinley was on the phone with a second dispatcher when she pulled the trigger.

    McKinley's husband died of cancer on Christmas Day, Walters said. Evidence indicates Martin and Stewart may have been looking for painkillers or other drugs taken by McKinley's ill husband, the assistant prosecutor said. Investigators found no such drugs, he told CNN.

    Police said Stewart told them Martin knew McKinley's husband had died, according to CNN affiliate KOCO. Martin suspected prescription drugs would be inside the home, the station reported, citing court documents.


    McKinley said she believes the men were coming after her, rather than intending to commit a robbery.

    According to the affidavit, the men approached McKinley's mobile home Saturday afternoon. Martin had devised a plan to burglarize the residence, police said.

    Stewart told investigators he and Martin ingested hydrocodone about 30 minutes before reaching the rural home, the affidavit states.

    Martin "aggressively" knocked on the doors of the home and gained entry by hitting one of them with his shoulder, police said. Stewart said "he heard a gunshot after Martin entered the residence," and Stewart then "fled on foot."

    McKinley said she had pushed the couch against the door to deter entry.

    "When he busted in the door I saw something shimmering in his hand," the mother told HLN. "I thought it was a pistol at first, but it was a 12-inch hunting knife. I didn't know (that) until after I shot and killed him."

    Martin, 24, was found between the door and a couch with a knife clutched in his gloved left hand, police said.

    CNN's calls to police in Blanchard, about 25 miles south of downtown Oklahoma City, were not immediately returned.

    Stewart's attorney, Stephen Buzin, told CNN he would not comment on specifics of the case against his client. "We will let the facts come out at trial and feel comfortable with his innocence," the attorney said.

    Martin recently had approached McKinley's home, saying he wanted to introduce himself, Walters said. The man said he worked for the owner of the property on which McKinley lived, she told HLN.

    McKinley, who in addition to the shotgun was also armed with a pistol, was on the phone with authorities for 21 minutes, Walters said.

    "She remained as calm as one could under the circumstances and had the forethought and called 911, as everyone should," he said.

    McKinley was asked on "Dr. Drew" whether she regretted shooting Martin.

    "No. We could have been in a whole different situation if I hadn't done it," she replied.

    Source
    As highlighted above the intruders were on dope. Another reason they could not have been reasoned with short of shooting at them.

    I wonder what idiot put up the $50k bail for Stewart? It was likely paid by a bail bondsman but someone would have had to put up property (house, land) as collateral if Stewart flees.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Æmeric View Post
    Aiming for the torso is standard in self-defense. It is harder to aim for the extremities (arms, legs, head) because they are smaller & it is harder to hit a moving target then one that is stationary, such as at a shooting range. Also if the intruders were armed they could have fired back if hit in the leg. And lastly, Sarah McKinley did not ask permission to kill the intruders but to shoot them - her shot just happen to be fatal.

    Mrs. McKinley is not a trained law-enforcement officer. It is easy to say she should have done this or that after the event but as they were unfolding she reacted as most people would have in the same situation with the means (rifle & handgun) to defends themself & child.

    I think she showed restrant by waiting for them to enter the house. She was shooting defensively, the shot just happened to be fatal. And besides one of the intruders got away so she wasn't exactly bloodthirty.

    Deadly force can be used to stop a crime in progress. The intruders are at fault here, that is why Dustin Stewart is the one charged with murder. But they were willing to take that chance & Justin Martin lost his life.



    As highlighted above the intruders were on dope. Another reason they could not have been reasoned with short of shooting at them.

    I wonder what idiot put up the $50k bail for Stewart? It was likely paid by a bail bondsman but someone would have had to put up property (house, land) as collateral if Stewart flees.
    Based on the article that you posted, I see your point. If someone broke into my house and I thought it was a gun he was holding, not a knife, I'd shoot away, and I'd think it justified.

    So, based on her feeling personally threatened by the knife that looked like a gun and her feeling that the intruders were personally after her....



    I don't, however, think Dustin Stewart should be charged for murder. From the sound of it, he didn't even enter the house. I'd like to see him put away on charges for trespassing and burglary, assault, and conspiracy in murder, and then sued for a large sum of money by McKinley.

    And I agree, whoever paid the bail for Stewart must be incredibly stupid.
    Leben heißt für mich, mehr Träume in meiner Seele zu haben als die Realität zerstören kann.
    -Hans Kruppa

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    To CruxClaire,

    I wasn't going to make any comment as others have already said almost everything that there is to say. However, may I ask what medication you are on which causes you to live in your fanatasy world?

    You seem to have an extraordinary faith in your ability to keep cool under tremendous pressure and furthermore that such degenerates as these, after being determined enough to plan and then execute their break-in are then going to turn tail and run after a gentle warning.

    I think that there is an expression. Let me see now, oh yes - Get Real!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petervalhalla View Post
    To CruxClaire,

    I wasn't going to make any comment as others have already said almost everything that there is to say. However, may I ask what medication you are on which causes you to live in your fanatasy world?
    Insults won't be necessary, thanks.

    You seem to have an extraordinary faith in your ability to keep cool under tremendous pressure and furthermore that such degenerates as these, after being determined enough to plan and then execute their break-in are then going to turn tail and run after a gentle warning.

    I think that there is an expression. Let me see now, oh yes - Get Real!
    I would hardly call an order to freeze at gunpoint "gentle." Would you? If I aimed a loaded gun at your head at close range and warned that I would shoot you at the first sign of movement, would that be overly gentle of me?

    I hardly think your post was necessary. In my last post, which I suspect you did not read, I conceded that since the woman stated that she believed the intruder's weapon was a gun rather than a knife, she was justified in shooting him.
    Leben heißt für mich, mehr Träume in meiner Seele zu haben als die Realität zerstören kann.
    -Hans Kruppa

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    I'm going to say: It is a justified and commendable reaction, but not an ideal reaction. Your home is your castle and you're clearly in tactical advantage. The ideal reaction if you're armed yourself would be to confront the house breaker at gun point whilst making sure neither of them has access to their pockets and/or a different weapon.

    You've already got your weapon drawn and adjusted and will be faster if they make as much of a twitch. Most armed housebreakers bear their arm for intimidation, the last thing they expect is you to be armed to the teeth yourself and not having any qualms to blast their guts to pieces. Police, albeit usually at least in pairs, will seek to disarm first. Private persons can, that way, also give them a run first.

    However, this is not an ideal world, and you've got but a spare second to decide "your or them". A suspected firearm is always a worst-case scenario, you have no second chance if you mess up the first time, so in the case of doubt, always be safe rather than sorry. You're under stress and it's a situation you can practice as often as you want (which a young mother will not have) and it's still a novel situation that demands immediate action. So hats off for her resolute demeanor! Very proud to hear!

    Glad the local law there afford protection for such action, lethal force would be taken as "excessive self-defense" here and might indeed end up being charged as culpable homicide/manslaughter/"Totschlag". I do agree though that it should be your right to blow to pieces any armed intruder on your property upon ascertaining he's not here to bring flowers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CruxClaire View Post
    I would hardly call an order to freeze at gunpoint "gentle." Would you? If I aimed a loaded gun at your head at close range and warned that I would shoot you at the first sign of movement, would that be overly gentle of me?
    Yes, it would.

    When things like this happen, they happen real fast. From the split second the intruder crossed the threshold she had every right to shoot him and his partner. They knew she was in there, they were armed ( it does not matter what they were armed with or if she thought it was a gun or not) the split second they cross that entry they should be shot no questions, no warnings, just bang in that split second a lot could happen.

    I am a avid bird hunter, I shoot ruffled grouse on the wing( in flight for you non-hunters). In less than a second a grouse can fly away, in less than a second I can shoot a grouse. Why give them a warning to prepare, she acted on pure natural instinct, like we all should when a intruder enters our homes. If she said "freeze" it could have given him enough time to counter act her. If she said "freeze" it could have given his partner a chance to come in at a different angle. There are lots of things that could have happened in the "freeze" time. What if her gun malfunction while she has holding on him, he would be posed and ready during that "freeze" and she could not have drawn her other gun as quickly. Flat out she got the drop on the bad guy, it saved her life and the life of her child. Even if they did not intend to kill her, the emotional scars could have done damage.

    BTW It does not matter if she thought they had a gun, the fact is they broke into her house to do her some kind of harm. She had every right to shoot both of them. IMHO even the one who did not enter the home should have been shot as he was just as guilty. Now we ( those of us that pay taxes ) have to pay for this bastard while he gets fat on prison food and learns how to be a better criminal while he is locked up. There are decent hard working people in this country that cannot afford some of the luxuries this trash will get when he is locked up, things like cable TV, free health care, free dental, and a free education. Maybe even worse he could spend his time in prison planning his revenge and enlist other scumbags to help him when he gets out.
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

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