View Poll Results: Which side is yours?

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  • The Union

    24 28.57%
  • The Confederation

    60 71.43%
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Thread: Which Side Would You Pick?

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    Which Side Would You Pick?

    Hi American Skadites,

    imagine following situation: You are in the year 1861. American civil war is imminent, Abraham Lincoln has just been elected. The Southern states split up from the North, the armies begin to form.

    Which side would you pick, which side has your favor and your active support? And why?

    The Union (Northern States)? Or the Confederation (Southern States)?



    And would you actively fight for your side?

    "Judge of your natural character by what you do in your dreams" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    I just realised it was American based, sorry! Not American, but I still placed my vote, Confederate.

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    Well If I didn’t pick my Grate, Great, Grandfathers side I'm not sure how he would feel, .

    So I guess that makes me a Confederate.

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    I would have to pick the Confederate states. The war and division was about state's rights and keeping the federal government out of the state's law making abilities.

    Most Americans today think the war was to 'free' the negro slaves, that is simply not true. The slavery issue was attached towards the end of the war to bolster Lincoln's re-election.

    I know many German/Americans fought for both sides, there were whole companies of German immigrants in some cases.
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

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    I would have gone with the Union for the following reasons;

    1: I would not have the advantage of retrospect from 2012 on some of the longerm consequences of the conflict.

    2: In 1861 everyone expected the war to be over in a few months.

    3: My sympathies would not lie with the slave holders, who basically wanted a cheap labor supply, similar to 21st century business men who prefer illegal aliens.

    4: Freeing the slaves was not an official war aim in 1861. The Emancipation Proclamation only went into effect on January 1, 1863 & only in those areas still in rebellion.

    5: The original war aim was reunion of the states. The geopolitical climate at the time made a disunited union more susceptible to other powers. For example during the Civil War, France attempted to set up a satellite state in Mexico under the Archduke Maximilian of Austria.

    6: Tariffs were an issue, with the South wanting low tariffs, but promoting native industry (through high tariffs) is not a bad idea at the time.

    7: Free Soil was important to Northerners. This meant homsteaders could have government land for free if the settled & worked it for a number of years. The Southern political elite opposed Free Soil, preferring a systems were planters would get the best land - as happened in the South, with Whites without slaves or influence got the poorer lands. After the South seceded the Homstead Act was passed, which allowed settlers to claim up to 160 acres of land in exchange for a $10 filing fee & living on the claim for 5 years. This led to the settlement of the Prairie States.

    8: Lincoln advocated settling free Negroes outside of the US, in the Caribbean or Central America. Aside for a few radical, pro-Negro abolitionists, no imagined that millions of Negroes would be freed & given the same civil whites as Whites by the end of the decade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by celticviking View Post
    The "Model" of the ANV (the "von Manstein" is Lee). Best strategist on the operational level (thus handling of regiments and brigades), as commander of the II. Corps of the ANV. His conduct of the Valley Campaign (1862) leading to the Northern Virgina Campaign are in my view a "must" study for any strategist and military historian.

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    I voted for the Confederacy.

    Here is why:

    First I will mention the Non-Aggression principle where any initiation by force is illicit and contrary to natural law. It is evident that the Southern Confederacy ought to be protected under this principle in that the Federal government aimed to coerce, by means of military force, the Southern States into submission as is evident in the invasionary nature of its campaign and its actions against various State legislatures like that of Maryland whose own dissenters against the Federal Union were suppressed by force before they could vote on secession. Also the writ "Targeting Civilians" by Thomas J. DiLorenzo cites the genocidal language of the Union where they viewed the war as "a war of extermination and that all Southerners would be driven like swine into the sea", this genocidal sort of language clearly violates the Non-Aggression principle and I am bound by duty to oppose those wrongs of the Federal government.



    Second, under the duty of beneficence I ought to help other peoples in increasing pleasure and the improvement of character. There is no doubt in my mind that the principles of Southron honor and chivalry, loyalty to State, and loyalty to kith and kin, all protected by the Southern Confederacy, in no short measure are necessary for an improved character and are compatible with the duty of beneficence.



    Third, under the duty of justice all individuals ought to get what they deserve: There is no doubt in my mind that not only Tennesseans and other Confederates but all peoples deserve sovereignty in short the supreme and independent authority over their own persons and homes and as such the defense of such a sovereignty movement like that of the neo-Confederates shall be protected by said duty.



    Fourth, under the dutiful principle of gratitude I ought to act graciously and to the benefit of those who have benefited myself. None the more eligible than my own kin, former neighbors in Tennessee, and those deceased Confederate ancestors of my own who fought for their progeny's freedom against an invading horde. As such the principle of gratitude extends itself to my support of a Southern Confederacy.

    Then on the slavery issue I present:

    On Robert E. Lee:

    http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoun...%20Slavery.htm

    "There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil."

    http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoun...es%20slave.htm

    "I was raised by one of the greatest men in the world. There was never one born of a woman greater than Gen. Robert E. Lee, according to my judgment. All of his servants were set free ten years before the war, but all remained on the plantation until after the surrender."

    Also, my own family as yeomen did not own slaves yet fought for the Confederacy as they supported their own freedom above all, they cared not one way or another about "coloured issues".
    Lineage migration - Hatfield, Yorkshire, England ->Stainforth, Yorkshire, England ->Whitgift, Yorkshire, England->Blacktoft, Yorkshire, England->Mecklenburg County, Virginia ->Rutherford County, North Carolina ->Overton County, Tennessee.

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    I pick the Union simply because of my place of birth, which is largely the argument voiced by the average Confederate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cadwallon View Post
    I voted for the Confederacy.

    Here is why:

    First I will mention the Non-Aggression principle where any initiation by force is illicit and contrary to natural law.
    No force was used in the ratification of the US Constitution by Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina & Georgia. Kentucky was part of Virginia before statehood, Tennessee was part of North Carolina. The Republic of Texas voted for annexation in 1845. The above had independence apart from the US before pursuing admission. Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas & Lousiana were US territories before gaining statehood. They were colonies if you like, but granted sovereignty as part of the Union.

    The great legal question brought about by the Civil War (and never actually answered) is "Do the individual states have the right to secede?". One line of reasoning is that as "sovereign states" yes they did. But another way of looking at it is that the Constitution was a contract between the states & that changing the terms of, or withdrawling from the Union, required consent among all parties - the individual states, those leaving & those remaining. The Constitution simply doesn't address the issue of sucession. Sucession brought about the issue of Federal assets, notable Federal forts in the states that seceded. The shooting started over Fort Sumter in Charleston Harbor. There were also other legitimate concerns for Northerners, such as access to foreign trade via the lower Mississippi & the Port of New Orleans. That was definitely an issue of concern to Midwesterners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Æmeric View Post
    No force was used in the ratification of the US Constitution by Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina & Georgia. Kentucky was part of Virginia before statehood, Tennessee was part of North Carolina. The Republic of Texas voted for annexation in 1845. The above had independence apart from the US before pursuing admission. Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas & Lousiana were US territories before gaining statehood. They were colonies if you like, but granted sovereignty as part of the Union.
    The Non-Aggression principle I cited in response to the invasionary and genocidal tactics of the Union Army during the war, that war to generals like Sherman was a "war of extermination" where they sought to drive "Southerners to the sea like swine" where civilians were targeted along with militants. http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo8.html

    Atlanta, Murfreesboro, Knoxville, St. Petersburg, Fredericksburg, Charleston, Columbia, my own hometown of Livingston and countless Southern towns and cities all bore witness to the horrors committed by men who wore the blue coats.

    I will say this, yes the Southron armies did their fair share of nasty things (i.e. Fort Pillow) however this was reactionary against an invader and thus is not of the same line of offense as what the Union committed.



    The great legal question brought about by the Civil War (and never actually answered) is "Do the individual states have the right to secede?". One line of reasoning is that as "sovereign states" yes they did. But another way of looking at it is that the Constitution was a contract between the states & that changing the terms of, or withdrawling from the Union, required consent among all parties - the individual states, those leaving & those remaining. The Constitution simply doesn't address the issue of sucession. Sucession brought about the issue of Federal assets, notable Federal forts in the states that seceded. The shooting started over Fort Sumter in Charleston Harbor. There were also other legitimate concerns for Northerners, such as access to foreign trade via the lower Mississippi & the Port of New Orleans. That was definitely an issue of concern to Midwesterners.
    I see it this way, yes the Constitution was a contract, however when parties reach an impasse within the contract it need be amended or the parties abrogate, amendment was attempted at first however the starts of an invasion of the South were in the works as early as the Jackson presidency where Jackson had authorized military units to be deployed into South Carolina in order to police Carolinian civilians for fear of protest, precursor to the current police State of the United States of America. So abrogation was the last resort and the North was cruel in its reaction women, children, livestock and crop not safe from the wrath of Washington. I hold no love for the Union, none whatsoever.
    Lineage migration - Hatfield, Yorkshire, England ->Stainforth, Yorkshire, England ->Whitgift, Yorkshire, England->Blacktoft, Yorkshire, England->Mecklenburg County, Virginia ->Rutherford County, North Carolina ->Overton County, Tennessee.

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