Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 85

Thread: National Socialism, Fascism, and Communism

  1. #31
    Senior Member NatSozArbeiter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last Online
    Saturday, April 7th, 2012 @ 11:18 PM
    Ethnicity
    Pennsylvania-German
    Ancestry
    Southern Germany
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    Pennsylvania Pennsylvania
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Tradesman
    Politics
    Strasserist National Socialism
    Religion
    Asatru
    Posts
    52
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Ingwë View Post
    NS is a folk philosophy for the German people which advocates duties before rights.
    Evidence? The two quotes you provided by Adolf Hitler don't prove anything of the sort. One implies that there is a deeper spiritual meaning to National Socialism and the second is merely outlining the purpose of the state.

    It is nothing more than an initiative to facilitate power for Germany and create an enviornment where Germans may advance biologically, culturally and spiritually within a hierarchical organization with Nordids and Faelids to be the priority in the nations biological expression.
    Obviously German nationalists are going to worry about the advancement of the Germanic race in all spheres of life. Both nationalism and socialism are not restricted to the Germanic race though.

    It is a phenomenon restricted to Germany. Your definition of what NS is and the very undertanding of the word is shallow and simplistic focusing on its economic system without considering the wider spectrum of the philosophy surrounding NS (this is where Nationalsozialismus truly becomes distinct from the petty Nationaler Sozializmus). Therefore clearly shows you know very little about NS, likely attributed to the fact that you are American.
    It is in no way restricted to Germany. Nationalism and Socialism are absolutely essential to each other anywhere you go, it is a National Socialists belief that one can not come about without the other. It in fact shows how little you know, or how much you actually care about the economic system of National Socialism. It has always been one of my main distastes for Hitlerian National Socialism, that they would show such disregard and obviously lack a misunderstanding of economic systems.

    If you could demonstrate to me, that the idea of National Socialism could not be used with any folk in the world, you would change my opinion. National Socialists have sometimes even implied the opposite. Hence the saying

    Creative men of all nations and races, recognize your common enemy!

    As for NS being left wing as addressed in your quote, it doesn't matter what you call it. While being culturally and nationally conservative, it most definitely is revolutionary and socialist which is part of leftist ideology.
    Anti-capitalist and anti-communist!

    "Hate must be born of love. One must be capable of loving to know what is hateful, and so have the strength to destroy it." - Otto Strasser

  2. #32
    Account Inactive
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Last Online
    2 Weeks Ago @ 04:05 PM
    Ethnicity
    Schläsinger Deutsch
    Ancestry
    Austro-Prussian Frontier
    Country
    Australia Australia
    State
    Silesia Silesia
    Gender
    Age
    31
    Politics
    Völkisch
    Posts
    89
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    8
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NatSozArbeiter View Post
    Evidence? The two quotes you provided by Adolf Hitler don't prove anything of the sort. One implies that there is a deeper spiritual meaning to National Socialism and the second is merely outlining the purpose of the state.



    Obviously German nationalists are going to worry about the advancement of the Germanic race in all spheres of life. Both nationalism and socialism are not restricted to the Germanic race though.



    It is in no way restricted to Germany. Nationalism and Socialism are absolutely essential to each other, it is a National Socialists belief that one can not come about without the other. It in fact shows how little you know, or how much you actually care about the economic system of National Socialism. It has always been one of my main distastes for Hitlerian National Socialism, that they would show such disregard and obviously lack a misunderstanding of economic systems.

    If you could demonstrate to me, that the idea of National Socialism could not be used with any folk in the world, you would change my opinion. National Socialists have sometimes even implied the opposite. Hence the saying

    Creative men of all nations and races, recognize your common enemy!

    As for NS being left wing as addressed in your quote, it doesn't matter what you call it. While being culturally and nationally conservative, it most definitely is revolutionary and socialist which is part of leftist ideology.
    My concern is your attempts to make NS some kind of a universalist ideology for import, which is typical of Americans to try and interpret and introduce it into their own crumbling society since they find it hard to come up with something on their own, then regurgitate it back to Germans in Germany telling them what their own German creations are supposed to mean to them. This is clear with you trying to label NS as democratic which is something bizarre to me. The fact is NS doesnt't give a two fold about the fate of America or "humanity" for that matter only if there is a benefit to make Germany stronger.

    In a more general response to what you believe to be so, I refer you to this post by a native German.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hauke Haien View Post
    NS stood on a broad base of German traditions that were taken for granted by its historical proponents and as a consequence, NS cannot be properly understood outside of this context. This basic problem has escalated into even graver problems, namely Skinheadism, NS libertarianism (?), White Nationalism and other idiocies. There is no point in complaining about this as far as foreigners are concerned, but it becomes a problem for us if this kind of trash returns to Germany by way of Americanisation and makes yet another of our native ideologies dependent on a Western cultural context.

    There was a time in German politics when practically all elements were fiercely ethnocentric, to varying degrees and with differing ideas about our inner structure. Now you will even find Germans who identify as NS, pledge allegiance to the white race and waste their time thinking about plots to save the very structure that keeps the German people enslaved to indifferent, incompetent morons for the sole reason that they are "white".

    "A community of physically and psychically homogeneous creatures", he is repeating a basic tenet of German ethno-nationalism, whose biological component had been solidified by means of scientific racism during the course of the 19th century. This is what he identifies as the basic foundation now. Before that, the biological aspect had already been present, albeit in less clear, highly spiritualised notions attached to a primarily linguistic conception.

    The great innovation of our early 19th century national movement is to detach loyalty and culture from the state and shift it to the people. Only in the next step, a unity of state and people is achieved. This approach did not originate in NS, but it was continued there. You do not become German by waving the flag of the state, you are German first and then you wave the flag of the state your people has claimed for itself. By analogy, German NS cannot spread as an idea, it can only spread through the expansion of the German people and the Germanisation of assimilable types.

    In an US context, where the identity of the people is rooted in a laughable civil religion attached to the state and the citizenship status issued by it, the quote is inevitably interpreted as a complete abandonment of the state and, more importantly, as a break between culture (resting with the state and its various subject peoples) and race. There is no dichotomy between culture and race in a German context, both are fused and form the German ethnicity, the distinction is between the state and the pre-existing German people that is supposed to be expressed in the state, essentially reversing the relationship found in most forms of monarchism and republicanism. Only if that is the case, only if "its end lies in the preservation and advancement of a community of physically and psychically homogeneous creatures", then the state becomes worthy of loyalty and acquires a spiritual quality.

    I consider racial internationalism among Germans beneath contempt and a clear proof of the progress Americanism has made in destroying our German ethnicity. This already begins with naming our problems correctly. We are not suffering from "multiculturalism", we are suffering from a lack of mono-ethnicism and the ultimate aim must remain to seize or create state power, even though we realise that individualised contributions to the German people, which is synonymous with the German nation, are of primary importance, especially now that no German nation state exists anywhere.
    I agree wholeheartedly

  3. #33
    Senior Member NatSozArbeiter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last Online
    Saturday, April 7th, 2012 @ 11:18 PM
    Ethnicity
    Pennsylvania-German
    Ancestry
    Southern Germany
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    Pennsylvania Pennsylvania
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Tradesman
    Politics
    Strasserist National Socialism
    Religion
    Asatru
    Posts
    52
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    In fact, when speaking about the subject of "rights" and "duties", I suggest you re-look at the original 25 point program of the NSDAP.

    Numbers 2, 6, 9 are all about rights. Number 10 is about duties, but this doesn't suggest that duties are placed over rights. Rights and duties belong together in equal measure.
    Anti-capitalist and anti-communist!

    "Hate must be born of love. One must be capable of loving to know what is hateful, and so have the strength to destroy it." - Otto Strasser

  4. #34
    Senior Member NatSozArbeiter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last Online
    Saturday, April 7th, 2012 @ 11:18 PM
    Ethnicity
    Pennsylvania-German
    Ancestry
    Southern Germany
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    Pennsylvania Pennsylvania
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Tradesman
    Politics
    Strasserist National Socialism
    Religion
    Asatru
    Posts
    52
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Ingwë View Post
    My concern is your attempts to make NS some kind of a universalist ideology for import, which is typical of Americans to try and interpret and introduce it into their own crumbling society since they find it hard to come up with something on their own, then regurgitate it back to Germans themselves telling them what their own creations mean to them.
    I am a National Socialist in so far as I look to many members of the NSDAP for inspiration for my ideology, it should be common sense that the system can't be exported exactly and needs to be adapted to the culture and material conditions of said nation.

    Come up with something of our own? You are hard pressed to find an ideology that is 100% unique. Every idea and invention is a synthesis which springs from ones that came before it.

    Furthermore, no one is making an argument for race internationalism. Any good NSist realizes that Germans have the right to keep Germany German and not give a shit about what any other "white" ethnic group does.


    This is clear with you trying to label NS as democratic which is something bizarre to me.
    I do not see how me labeling NS as democratic led you to believe I am some backwards American. Socialism by its very nature is a democratic system as it means the socialization of production and the resources of the nation under democratic control of the masses of our folk.

    Now, Hitlerian National Socialism with the ideology of Fuhrerprinzip is most certainly anti-democratic, but Hitler abandoned his socialist principles in favor of a more fascist system.

    Otto Strasser realized that to pledge such loyalty to one man was madness, and any true NSist should remain faithful to the idea of National Socialism and not one man, whether it be Strasser or Hitler.

    I refer back to the 25 points:

    Number 6 says: The right to choose the government and determine the laws of the State shall belong only to citizens

    Obviously democratic.

    The fact is NS doesnt't give a two fold about the fate of America or "humanity" for that matter only if there is a benefit to make Germany stronger.
    NS doesn't have feelings, it is an idea, not a conscious being.
    Anti-capitalist and anti-communist!

    "Hate must be born of love. One must be capable of loving to know what is hateful, and so have the strength to destroy it." - Otto Strasser

  5. #35
    Account Inactive
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Last Online
    2 Weeks Ago @ 04:05 PM
    Ethnicity
    Schläsinger Deutsch
    Ancestry
    Austro-Prussian Frontier
    Country
    Australia Australia
    State
    Silesia Silesia
    Gender
    Age
    31
    Politics
    Völkisch
    Posts
    89
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    8
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NatSozArbeiter View Post
    I am a National Socialist .
    Oh yes, you might be a National Socialist alright, but definitely not a Nationalsocialist.

    Quote Originally Posted by NatSozArbeiter View Post
    under democratic control of the masses of our folk.
    mob rule? obviously you havn't read into mass psychology or bolshevism much, we have uncle Hitler for that.


    Quote Originally Posted by NatSozArbeiter View Post
    Now, Hitlerian National Socialism with the ideology of Fuhrerprinzip is most certainly anti-democratic, but Hitler abandoned his socialist principles in favor of a more fascist system.

    Otto Strasser realized that to pledge such loyalty to one man was madness, and any true NSist should remain faithful to the idea of National Socialism and not one man, whether it be Strasser or Hitler.

    You might want to consider this

    Quote Originally Posted by Hauke Haien View Post
    Nationalsocialism has a completely different approach, where the worth of the individual emanates from the community and feeds back into it. The most valuable individual is the Führer, a term that ultimately traces back to "Herzog", which is not merely a title of nobility and analogous to "dux/duke".

    He is seen as the incarnation of righteousness, determining and upholding what is right. As Carl Schmitt explains:

    Der Führer schützt das Recht vor dem schlimmsten Missbrauch, wenn er im Augenblick der Gefahr kraft seines Führertums als oberster Gerichtsherr unmittelbar Recht schafft.


    The Führer protects Right (compare: Arta/Asha) from gravest abuse when, in the moment of danger, he creates immediate law as the highest judge by power of his leadership.


    Transcendent human rights, either upheld or violated, have no relevance and do not even exist here.

  6. #36
    Senior Member NatSozArbeiter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last Online
    Saturday, April 7th, 2012 @ 11:18 PM
    Ethnicity
    Pennsylvania-German
    Ancestry
    Southern Germany
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    Pennsylvania Pennsylvania
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Tradesman
    Politics
    Strasserist National Socialism
    Religion
    Asatru
    Posts
    52
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Ingwë View Post
    Oh yes, you might be a National Socialist alright, but definitely not a Nationalsocialist.
    Woah, I am sensing some serious dialectics here. I am both something and not something at the same time. You, sir, are the next great Hegel.

    mob rule? obviously you havn't read into mass psychology or bolshevism much, we have uncle Hitler for that.
    Yes, because Ze Furher's word is law!

    It is a shame most Hitlerians think that having the right to self administration is "tyranny of the mob!". In reality all the anti-democracy types I think have some serious self esteem problems and like to think of themselves as above the rest of the folk. They shout "Nationalism is born of love for your people!" and on the other hand would deny their people the right to govern their own lives.

    Surprisingly wasn't it Leon Degrelle who quoted Hitler saying "Democracy will be rigorously enforced by National Socialism?"

    And save your Hitlerian quotes, but most sane people don't worship a man and the elevation of a man to such heights is a blight on the Germanic spirit of freedom.
    Anti-capitalist and anti-communist!

    "Hate must be born of love. One must be capable of loving to know what is hateful, and so have the strength to destroy it." - Otto Strasser

  7. #37
    Account Inactive
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Last Online
    2 Weeks Ago @ 04:05 PM
    Ethnicity
    Schläsinger Deutsch
    Ancestry
    Austro-Prussian Frontier
    Country
    Australia Australia
    State
    Silesia Silesia
    Gender
    Age
    31
    Politics
    Völkisch
    Posts
    89
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    8
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NatSozArbeiter View Post

    Yes, because Ze Furher's word is law!

    In reality all the anti-democracy types I think have some serious self esteem problems and like to think of themselves as above the rest of the folk. They shout "Nationalism is born of love for your people!" and on the other hand would deny their people the right to govern their own lives.

    And save your Hitlerian quotes, but most sane people don't worship a man and the elevation of a man to such heights is a blight on the Germanic spirit of freedom.
    If you read the quote "where the worth of the individual emanates from the community and feeds back into it". The leader is very much a part of the volk and is responsible to lead them right and into glory. Unlike democracy or parliamentarism within NS there is great responsibility from the leader, should he fail or abuse his power towards avenues not in the best interest of the volk then:

    "There can be no such thing as state authority as an end in itself, for, if there were, every tyranny in this world would be unassailable and sacred.
    If, by the instrument of governmental power, a nationality is led toward its destruction, then rebellion is not only the right of every member of such a people-it is his duty." - Adolf Hitler.


    The mass has no will, nor can it make right decisions as its loyalities can change in an instance nor can they appreciate the individual genius. Individuals have a will, it takes great minds to make their will a reality, democracy or mob rule creates an idiotic crowd and can never evolve beyond mediocraty, much of the same problems we have today, imported from America's expression of liberal democracy. The purpose of NS is to create a new breed of person, away from the slave minds which mob systems produce, creating an enviornment allowing those truly free in spirit to rise from the ranks and be the Germans of tomorrow and future leaders of Germany. In that way NS at its core embraces aristocratic values. But this must not be confused with degenerate western concepts of "individualism" which places the liberal rights and importance of individuals over the group.

    Does anybody honestly believe that human progress originates in the composite brain of the majority and not in the brain of the individual personality? - Adolf Hitler.

  8. #38
    Account Inactive
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Last Online
    Wednesday, July 11th, 2018 @ 06:09 AM
    Ethnicity
    Ethnicity
    Ancestry
    Ancestry
    Gender
    Age
    37
    Posts
    2,127
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,488
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    130
    Thanked in
    108 Posts
    What is with all your cardboard cut-out, or cookie-cutter, conspiracy bandwagon talking points? Life has a whole lot of grey between your black and white. Wow, there are Jews around every corner?!

    NatSozArbeiter has it right and sees through most of the propaganda for objective reality on the issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    Nationalsocialism is not the intersection of "Nationalism" and "Socialism". It is rather strange that you would start this thread while admitting you don't even know what Nationalsocialism is (i.e. you haven't read "Mein Kampf" nor "Der Mythus", nor any theoretical German work of that era).
    This renders most of your comments pointless.
    I am not ignorant of Nazism, because the proponents of it are very vocal to get their word out. Obviously, I put less stock in the followers and the mythology of it than der Fuhrer himself and the political theories involved. I see National Socialism on its own merit as an ideology and not tied down to all the specific details in which it was formed or functioned as a part of German affairs. If you want to do that, then you see how NS is dead because it cannot evolve to other conditions. That is unlike Democracy or Republicanism, Whiggery or Toryism. That is not to say that Germany would not be ideal for NS, because that is true! I already pointed out how the juxtaposition of Germany between the Fascist and Communist powers made it a logical arrangement. Why is it when you can see the proof with your own eyes, you disbelieve it? At least most Doubting Thomases need proof by sight to believe, and do not deny the obvious!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    No, they don't. You may want to revise your knowledge about the theory of sets. It may be a conjunction, depending on the actual definition of these words.
    If you take one aspect of one set, which is not present in the other, then it can't be an intersection.
    Simply put...Fascism and Communism are too radically different to work with one another, but their milder respective forms of Nationalism and Socialism are closer to the centre of the ideological spectrum, and therefore, more likely to be productive when in contact with one another.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralf Rossa View Post
    Hi Grimston, as an aside in view of your admirable admission for a passion for Christian ideology.
    My own so called "anti-semitism" world views, I principally base on Jesus own words about our own time in Revelation where he states that the "Great city, and Harlot has a kingdom over the kings of the Earth"

    :- 18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

    So, a great city that controls all the worlds governments, now either Jesus was lying, or just before the establishment of the one World Government, there would be a group of people who do indeed have undue influence on the worlds individual nations, and who is this group of people or what is this city?

    Revelation 18 v24 In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people,
    of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”

    Now compare that verse with the words Jesus addressed Jerusalem and the elite ruling Jews of the time with at Matthew 23

    29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees,
    35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth,
    37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets



    Now that to me is just a small part of the evidence that Jesus identifies it is indeed Jews that are controlling our governments in our time, and I have yet to find evidence that he was wrong whenever I search deeper.
    So, you think there was a Jew behind Caesar? Behind Alexander? Behind Charlemagne? Behind Cyrus? Please, be real! You have a very Judeocentric view of the world not unlike the homosexual supremacists who like to say everybody who is famous is either homosexual or was made famous because of homosexuals. That is just like Afrocentrism. Leave all the Jews, Negroes, and homosexuals out of these debates, save where they are the topic at hand, please.

    I am somewhat anti-Semitic myself, but this is rooted in Classical and Mediaeval views of the Jews and not 20th century materialistic nonsense, modern anti-Semitism itself being based in Marxism.

  9. #39
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Online
    Friday, January 13th, 2012 @ 01:16 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    England
    Subrace
    Possibly Borreby
    Country
    England England
    State
    Yorkshire Yorkshire
    Location
    London
    Gender
    Family
    Widowed
    Occupation
    Retired
    Politics
    Nationalsocialist
    Religion
    Nationalsocialist
    Posts
    114
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Although I can't put my hand on it right now, I read somewhere that Hitler was quoted as saying "basically, Nationalsocialism/National Socialism (I can't remember which) and Communism are the same". Did he actually say that and if so, under what circumstances?

  10. #40
    Account Inactive
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Last Online
    Wednesday, July 11th, 2018 @ 06:09 AM
    Ethnicity
    Ethnicity
    Ancestry
    Ancestry
    Gender
    Age
    37
    Posts
    2,127
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,488
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    130
    Thanked in
    108 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Petervalhalla View Post
    Although I can't put my hand on it right now, I read somewhere that Hitler was quoted as saying "basically, Nationalsocialism/National Socialism (I can't remember which) and Communism are the same". Did he actually say that and if so, under what circumstances?
    I would say that any conflation of National Socialism with either Fascism or with Communism would be unwise except when treating with specific issues. National Socialism is likely to be Fascist on some issues, and Communist on others. That is the beauty of ideological compromise. Hitler was a lot smarter than people take him for, and not because "he knew the truth about der Juden!" (was this new?), but because he was a great mastermind and tactician not unlike Napoleon (right down to attacking Moscow, hah), and a brilliant rhetorician.

Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 66
    Last Post: Sunday, September 12th, 2010, 01:20 AM
  2. National Communism
    By Taras Bulba in forum Political Theory
    Replies: 97
    Last Post: Sunday, October 18th, 2009, 11:02 AM
  3. Chauvinism, National-Socialism or Racial-Socialism?
    By Lusitano in forum Political Theory
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: Thursday, May 4th, 2006, 07:02 PM
  4. Replies: 22
    Last Post: Friday, November 5th, 2004, 04:08 AM
  5. National Socialism or Fascism?
    By Pera_Z in forum Political Theory
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: Monday, April 12th, 2004, 02:07 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •