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Thread: Colonials as Europeans

  1. #21
    Senior Member Resurgam's Avatar
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    No one can predict the future of the United States over the course of the next 20 years but I believe there will be some major changes in society, whether for the better or worse. The status quo doesn't continue forever.


    The Perfect Storm – Our Great Depression
    by Jim Quinn

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig9/quinn10.html

    For the 1st time in many years I saw something that shows promise for our country’s future. Despite the rhetoric from President Bush, Hank Paulson, Ben Bernanke, Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank, all CNBC commentators, and various ultra-rich Wall Street shills, the American public was firmly against this bailout bill. I sense that the "ME GENERATION" is finally ready to accept the consequences of their selfish lifestyle over the last 30 years. The materialistic frenzy that has been the hallmark of the Baby Boom Generation is coming to an end. It is being forced upon many, but will be the choice of many more. The worldwide deleveraging will lead to a new mantra for this generation, frugality and living beneath your means. The psychology of the whole world has changed in a fortnight. Our leaders are so consumed by their own agendas that they have not realized the implications of this psychological change. Chaos and turmoil reign in the markets today. The population of the U.S. will turn inward and seek comfort in more simple pursuits. This will ultimately be a beneficial change for our society. But, the immediate result will be wrenching for the country.

    The Catch-22 of our current economic system is that if everyone in the country lives within their means, the economy will collapse. The spending of money we do not have is what has driven our "Great" country for the last three decades. We can always count on Government to not live within its means, so deficit spending will continue and most likely accelerate. But, consumers have been dependent upon the stupidity and recklessness of banks, credit card companies, retailers, and auto makers to help them live above their means. This part of the American Dream is lying in shambles. Banks will not lend, credit card companies are cancelling credit lines, retailers are closing stores, and auto makers have stopped financing cars. Part 2 of our economic crisis has just begun. Having worked for a big box retailer and a major public homebuilder, I have witnessed first hand that faulty pie-in-the-sky assumptions about growth will lead to dreadful strategic decisions that have huge negative financial consequences to those companies.
    From the concluding pages of E.A. Pollard's book "The Lost Cause" from 1866

    There are certain coarse advisers who tell the Southern people that the great ends of their lives now are to repair their stock of national wealth: to bring in Northern capital and labour: to build mills and factories and hotels and gilded caravansaries: and to make themselves rivals in the clattering and garish enterprise of the North. This advice has its proper place. But there are higher objects than the Yankee magna bona of money and display, and loftier aspirations than the civilization of material things. In the life of nations, as in that of the individual, there is something better than pelf, and the coarse prosperity of dollars and cents.
    This quote is not to beat up on Northerners in the United States given the orginal context of the quote. I think this quote is applicable everywhere in the U.S, right now. I hope more people wake up from the so-called "American Dream."

  2. #22
    Senior Member Maelstrom's Avatar
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    This post is especially in Todesengel. Note that I'm not trying to take an opposing standpoint, but rather have some further thoughts on the matter:


    The problem is that colonials are more often than not of mixed ethnicities.

    Look at myself for example: I have English, Scottish and even a bit of Irish ancestry. Would it be natural for me to go back to one of these lands and live there? I understand there has been great emigration from one country to the other.

    My partner, Rainraven, is half English, half Dutch. If she were to return to Europe where would her ideal country be? I have read on this forum that there is a significant amount of Dutch blood in England too.

    What about other Europeans with non-colonial backgrounds that are of mixed ethnicities? Just send them beyond the Pale?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom View Post
    This post is especially in Todesengel. Note that I'm not trying to take an opposing standpoint, but rather have some further thoughts on the matter:


    The problem is that colonials are more often than not of mixed ethnicities.

    Look at myself for example: I have English, Scottish and even a bit of Irish ancestry. Would it be natural for me to go back to one of these lands and live there? I understand there has been great emigration from one country to the other.

    My partner, Rainraven, is half English, half Dutch. If she were to return to Europe where would her ideal country be? I have read on this forum that there is a significant amount of Dutch blood in England too.

    What about other Europeans with non-colonial backgrounds that are of mixed ethnicities? Just send them beyond the Pale?

    I heard Antartica is nice at this time of year.

    My ancestors came to the United States too long ago. Most European countries have a requirement of a living Grandparent who was born in the country. My most recent ancestors were Great Grandparents born in the Hapsburg Empire...


    I'm afraid it does not look good for us. Most Americans are too mixed and/or arrived too long ago to be considered eligible for citizenship in most countries.


    And there are those who think we're mixed with Native and Negroid blood...



    Refugee Status should not be considered. If South Africans cannot get refugee status than neither can I. Being a young male without an outstanding expertise (I.E. Doctor), I'm afraid I'll be behind the Turks and Africans on the refugee list.


    During Argentina's recession, even 2nd generation Italo-Argentines were not allowed to return home. The Italian government at the time, felt that the Italo-Argentines (many of whom spoke fluent Italian) would effect the national politics. While at the same time, the Italian Government decided to bring in more Third World immigrants....



    Doesn't look good for us. The samething will happen in Europe. Most European countries would balk and quickly shut down the border, when tens of millions of White Americans want in.

  4. #24
    Senior Member SwordOfTheVistula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    Just to clarify, I was refering to European as a geo-cultural concept. I'm not an European nationalist either, as I reject Europeanism as an ideology that preaches Europe as a homogeneous entity. I am a German nationalist and I have nothing against Americans and other Colonials in themselves, I just have something against wannabes and people who aren't satisfied with what they are. An old stock colonial of German heritage is not a German. He would do better to serve his nation which is America or whichever is it, instead of dressing in Lederhosen or waving a German flag to "celebrate" his heritage. I'm not sorry if this sounds cruel, I simply reponded how I feel. This kind of desperate "identity" is the threat to Germanic preservation, because you can't preserve what hasn't been freshly passed down to you. German culture isn't learned from a book or bought in the form of a folkdress at the shopping mall, it is lived.
    Is Abe Steinberg of Jerusalem an 'Asian', Abe Steinberg of Berlin a 'German', and Abe Steinberg of New York an 'American'-or are they all of the same ethnicity?
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    Schimmelreiter Hauke Haien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwordOfTheVistula View Post
    Is Abe Steinberg of Jerusalem an 'Asian', Abe Steinberg of Berlin a 'German', and Abe Steinberg of New York an 'American'-or are they all of the same ethnicity?
    Abe Steinberg of Berlin does not qualify as a German. John Smith of St. Paul, grandson of Werner Schmitt, does not qualify either. The Jewish model of ethnicity is not ours and neither is the American model. There is no reason to change to either of them because ours is solid and useful for us.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    Just to clarify, I was refering to European as a geo-cultural concept. I'm not an European nationalist either, as I reject Europeanism as an ideology that preaches Europe as a homogeneous entity. I am a German nationalist and I have nothing against Americans and other Colonials in themselves, I just have something against wannabes and people who aren't satisfied with what they are. An old stock colonial of German heritage is not a German. He would do better to serve his nation which is America or whichever is it, instead of dressing in Lederhosen or waving a German flag to "celebrate" his heritage. I'm not sorry if this sounds cruel, I simply reponded how I feel. This kind of desperate "identity" is the threat to Germanic preservation, because you can't preserve what hasn't been freshly passed down to you. German culture isn't learned from a book or bought in the form of a folkdress at the shopping mall, it is lived.
    So those that want to reconnect with their roots are at fault? Granted, some attempts are a mere veneer (Folk dress and all) but German language and culture flourished here from the Colonial days until the First World War and even then it still didn't stop there. It literally took serious discrimination, anti-German laws (not revoked until 1920) and two world wars to sever ties for most...but for the children of those that did, there was a desire for reconnect those ties. But then again, I guess you'd have to be there to truly understand. For myself, I still remember the tears of joy in my Grandpa's eyes when he celebrated Weihnachten in my family's home...it brought back childhood memories, good memories from before the deluge. If I can bring that to people here (including those who have never known German culture in their lives because of the mistakes of their forefathers) I find it worth it...even if it means a sneer of contempt from people like yourself.

    Also, things don't nessesarily need to be "freshly passed" on. I was invited to a local Weihnachtsfest a few years back from someone that I worked with, it was a church made up entirely of ethnic Germans that had come here from Russia between the 1860's to the 1890's. To be honest, outside of the somewhat antiquated German (and some dialect) that they spoke I don't think that you would have felt out of place. Just a couple of thoughts....

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    Schimmelreiter Hauke Haien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriegersohn View Post
    I was invited to a local Weihnachtsfest a few years back from someone that I worked with, it was a church made up entirely of ethnic Germans that had come here from Russia between the 1860's to the 1890's. To be honest, outside of the somewhat antiquated German (and some dialect) that they spoke I don't think that you would have felt out of place.
    As described, they would probably qualify as German if this also carries over into their daily lives, i.e. if they speak German at home or use the German language when socializing with other Germans. What I object to are attempts by Americans of German ancestry to lower the bar so that they can qualify without putting any significant effort into it apart from being born. About 50 million Americans have German ancestry, barely 1.5 million are able to speak the language and even less use it on a regular basis in order to live and create culture.

    btw, I found this interesting Pennsylfaanisch-Deitsch sticker
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deary View Post
    What do you think of Colonials (Americans, Canadians, Australians, etc.) who identify as European? Specifically, I refer to those whose families have been in the New World for some generations, did not inherit any European traditions but who try to practice and pass down the language, culture and history of their distant ancestors and even wish to move to Europe. Europeans, do you accept these people as one of your own, and Colonials, how do they make you feel? Why and amongst who do you believe this trend occurs and is it detrimental to our country and the countries of others?
    I don't really consider myself entirely American or entirely European. If anything, I have a stronger religious identity. What I don't like, though, is someone telling me I have to identify completely with one side or the other.

    Here's my situation: I'm an American-born woman living in Europe. However, my mother is English, and I have a British passport, so my move here was very smooth, with little to no paperwork. If one only possesses an American passport, the hassles are endless, I hear.

    Do the Europeans I come into contact with consider me European? Hell, no. My accent is obviously American, though I lack the outgoing, vivacious personality many think Americans have. My advice to Americans wanting to move to Europe: toughen up. I have had some downright horrible experiences with Europeans, mostly Germans and English. When these folks learned I was American, I was given some pretty caustic verbal attacks. In other cases, I was ignored (which doesn't bother me), spoken condescendidly to or laughed at. Really, I could go on all day...but it's made me a stronger person. I don't have to fall apart because of others' rudeness.

    Note: In no way am I implying that all Europeans, especially people on this forum, are like the individuals I've encountered.

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  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauke Haien View Post
    As described, they would probably qualify as German if this also carries over into their daily lives, i.e. if they speak German at home or use the German language when socializing with other Germans. What I object to are attempts by Americans of German ancestry to lower the bar so that they can qualify without putting any significant effort into it apart from being born. About 50 million Americans have German ancestry, barely 1.5 million are able to speak the language and even less use it on a regular basis in order to live and create culture.
    I can agree with that (and yes, the church group that went to does speak German at home and amongst themselves). At the same time there are others that are trying to make it a part of their life again...and some do give up after catching flak from both Americans and Germans, while others take the beating and keep on going. Personally, I just don't like some of broad strokes on either side that have been given either for or against as the issue is more complex. We had a 50 year old man come to our stammtisch here, his parents never taught him, or his brothers and sisters, German even though they spoke it among themselves (usually when they didn't want the kids to know what they were talking about). He's had a hard time with learning it and he doesn't get all the nuances...it can be frustrating for him and us, but to see how far he's come I wouldn't give that up and write him off. There is no doubt that trying to correct mistakes from the past is a long and hard road though it is possible. One has to want to put in the time, with all the frustration that comes with it, and just do it.

    btw, I found this interesting Pennsylfaanisch-Deitsch sticker
    ok, now I want a bumper sticker of my own.

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    Senior Member SwordOfTheVistula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauke Haien View Post
    What I object to are attempts by Americans of German ancestry to lower the bar so that they can qualify without putting any significant effort into it apart from being born.
    Wouldn't that apply also to most modern day residents of Germany-no effort other than being born? The lifestyle difference of the average resident of the US and Germany is probably less so today than 100 years or even 50 years ago, and both equally alien to a mutual ancestor who was born in Germany in the 19th century or before.
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