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Thread: SNP Plans Closer Scandinavian Ties After Independence

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    Senior Member Hrogar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamar Fox View Post
    This. It took two pages to get to a reasonable post, and that's a higher-than-average score when it comes to this topic. You'll find a lot of continental and colonial know-nothings displaying a knee-jerk, PC-conditioned 'pro-Celtic struggle against the tyranny of the evil, evil English' attitude, which is essentially a NW European-specific answer to the mainstream's PC-conditioned 'pro-non-white struggle against the tyranny of the evil, evil whiteman' attitude. Yawn inducing and simplistic. The truth is that Celtic unity is as false and revisionary as is non-white unity: it exists in the minds of the stupid because it was placed there by unquestioned higher powers (or shitty historically inaccurate mid-90s movies), in close cooperation with that modern human need to saddle blame on others and paint oneself as helplessly pathetic.

    As for the Scandinavian ties raised here, I doubt anyone with half a brain could see this as ethnically driven. They're rather securing sufficient independence from an obvious partner (i.e. England) by contriving new, relatively unnatural bonds with un-obvious partners (i.e. Scandinavia), so as to be able to continue to indulge their new identity as a 'freed slave race' without having to worry about its effect on its closest economic and political relatives. We live in a culture of whining (about oppression and a million other things). The SNP wants to whine above all else. They don't actually want independence, especially if it takes from them their only excuse to whine. So what they're really talking about here are ways to secure a safe future for their whining, should the seeming answer to their current whining (that is, independence) ever annoyingly show itself.
    We should look at the Scottish and SNP's drive for independence with a bit of moderation. It is a fact that Scotland's ties with England are long, but also problematic. There have been many wars and battles between the two. Of course that last 100 years it has been, to my knowledge, quiet. But Scotland is still largely ruled from London.

    When a people are striving for independence, the initial phase is always characterized by a strong move away from the former ruler. Later on, after the establishment of independence, the relation will normalize again and a more healthy partnership is possible. But first one has to go through the initial separation phase. There is no way around it. And establishing new partnerships, such as now with Scandinavia, is a normal and even necessary aspect of that first phase. It's a process of first finding your own path.

    From an English point of view it might be scary or frustrating that the Scots are moving towards independence. But firstly they have a right to be independent as a people and secondly, they are not going anywhere and will in a second phase of the process most likely reestablish close ties with England.

    Honor and defend the northern people,
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    Walk the Northern Path,
    Sigr!

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrogar View Post
    We should look at the Scottish and SNP's drive for independence with a bit of moderation. It is a fact that Scotland's ties with England are long, but also problematic. There have been many wars and battles between the two.
    No offence intended, but you have an obvious go-to opinion on the matter. It's the only one available to continentals and colonials, so I'm not laying the blame at your feet, but suffice it to say that your opinion isn't very informed. My comments here should shed some light on the recent (i.e. the last half a millennium or so) and natural relationship between England and Scotland.

    Of course that last 100 years it has been, to my knowledge, quiet.
    You can add a few digits to that number.

    But Scotland is still largely ruled from London.
    As is Northern England, Eastern England, Western England, South Western England. Scottish blood is actually overrepresented in parliament, and Scots have certainly had a greater say in the direction the country has taken in the past few decades than, say, the Northern English. Of course, parliament's Scots don't represent Scottish interests any more than parliament's English represent English interests, but still...

    Plus, they have their own parliament, which Northern England also lacks.

    When a people are striving for independence, the initial phase is always characterized by a strong move away from the former ruler. Later on, after the establishment of independence, the relation will normalize again and a more healthy partnership is possible. But first one has to go through the initial separation phase. There is no way around it. And establishing new partnerships, such as now with Scandinavia, is a normal and even necessary aspect of that first phase. It's a process of first finding your own path.
    Within the confines EU law and globalised culture.

    From an English point of view it might be scary or frustrating that the Scots are moving towards independence. But firstly they have a right to be independent as a people and secondly, they are not going anywhere and will in a second phase of the process most likely reestablish close ties with England.
    It's really the inability of people involved in or supportive of the process to identify the real dynamics underlying it that I find frustrating. As long as people realise that Scotland isn't going to be 'free' at all, and will likely wind up in a worse ethnic position than it is currently, they can support whatever they will with no real objection from me.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Hrogar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamar Fox View Post
    No offence intended, but you have an obvious go-to opinion on the matter. It's the only one available to continentals and colonials, so I'm not laying the blame at your feet, but suffice it to say that your opinion isn't very informed. My comments here should shed some light on the recent (i.e. the last half a millennium or so) and natural relationship between England and Scotland.
    Indeed I am not specialized in Scottish history.

    However, I don't know what you mean by "It's the only one available to continentals and colonials". Please elaborate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamar Fox View Post
    As is Northern England, Eastern England, Western England, South Western England. Scottish blood is actually overrepresented in parliament, and Scots have certainly had a greater say in the direction the country has taken in the past few decades than, say, the Northern English. Of course, parliament's Scots don't represent Scottish interests any more than parliament's English represent English interests, but still...

    Plus, they have their own parliament, which Northern England also lacks.
    True, but Scotland was not, for example, romanized like England. And the Scots might not have fought many battles lately, but that doesn't say much about their mindset. These are subtle but important differences. And Northern England does not have a distinct sense of an own and separate identity like the Scots.

    Plus, I do believe that a confederate alliance of autonomous regions is the way ahead for Europe. It will definitely make Europe stronger and more agile.
    So maybe more autonomy for Northern England is a useful option to consider as a part of that process.

    In my next comment I will get back to this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamar Fox View Post
    Within the confines EU law and globalised culture.

    It's really the inability of people involved in or supportive of the process to identify the real dynamics underlying it that I find frustrating. As long as people realise that Scotland isn't going to be 'free' at all, and will likely wind up in a worse ethnic position than it is currently, they can support whatever they will with no real objection from me.
    The issue of the current modernistic ideologies and power structures is a different but necessary discussion. In my opinion we need to part from these things anyway. This sense of a necessary and inevitable break away from our modernistic ideologies and power structures underlies all my statements. I take this for granted, but of course others might not know this. So here it is.

    I see Scotlands independence as another nail in the coffin of our current national and European ideologies and institutions, because it means that people are becoming more aware of their own European culture and regional subculture, their ethnic identity and their ancestry. This is in straight opposition to modernism. And that is a good thing.
    In the current political arena, it doesn't matter to which modernistic institution you belong. We are being sold out by the EU as well as by every other European national government, including London.

    Honor and defend the northern people,
    Honor and defend the northern lands,
    Walk the Northern Path,
    Sigr!

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrogar
    However, I don't know what you mean by "It's the only one available to continentals and colonials". Please elaborate.
    I mean there's a reason 99% of colonials and continentals have the same opinion on the issue, and it's not because it's the correct one. People are receptive to simplistic victimology these days. The whole situation can be appealingly summed up -- incorrectly -- as oppressor vs. oppressed, without any especially prolonged or draining intellectual work, and therefore is.

    True, but Scotland was not, for example, romanized like England. And the Scots might not have fought many battles lately, but that doesn't say much about their mindset. These are subtle but important differences.
    But my understanding of their mindset derives from the reading of material written by and about Scots over the last few centuries. Most people's understanding is derived from Mel Gibson.

    And Northern England does not have a distinct sense of an own and separate identity like the Scots.
    Separate from Southern England? No. From London? Yes.

    The issue of the current modernistic ideologies and power structures is a different but necessary discussion. In my opinion we need to part from these things anyway. This sense of a necessary and inevitable break away from our modernistic ideologies and power structures underlies all my statements. I take this for granted, but of course others might not know this. So here it is.

    I see Scotlands independence as another nail in the coffin of our current national and European ideologies and institutions, because it means that people are becoming more aware of their own European culture and regional subculture, their ethnic identity and their ancestry. This is in straight opposition to modernism. And that is a good thing.
    But that isn't what will happen. The SNP is more leftist than the current government of Britain. They're not remotely interested in defying modern political ideologies and re-establishing an ethnic Scottish identity. They want to break away from England. That's all they want. If 72 million Negroes wished to relocate to Scotland, the SNP would be happy, just as long as such a movement of people didn't involve any kind of positive interaction with England.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrogar View Post
    From an English point of view it might be scary or frustrating that the Scots are moving towards independence. But firstly they have a right to be independent as a people and secondly, they are not going anywhere and will in a second phase of the process most likely reestablish close ties with England.
    The English point of view is this:

    - Scared? No
    - Frustrated? Yes
    - Fed up? Yes
    - Do they actually care? No
    - Annoyed with being made a scapegoat and focal point of self-righteous hatred? Yes
    - Annoyed with the West Lothian question, in particular with regards to Scotland? Yes

    The fact is that out of all the "Nations" in the UK, England, even though it is the largest, is under represented and stands at the end of the queue while the others cream off the froth with regards to public spending.

    The "Scottish" (and when I say "Scottish" I'm really referring to a small band of jingoists and noisy neighbours, not the majority of Scots) "Independence" drive is largely based on pie in the sky. They're not going to become "independent" when split off from the UK whilst incorporated into the EU. If anything, they'll be even more dependent in the EU, as opposed to when they are part of a powerful block inside the EU such as the UK.

    That's illusion number one.

    Illusion number two are their delusions of importance, significance and power to assert themselves.

    The world is a jungle, the rules are made by those with the big guns and the deep pockets. The Independence crowd may like to believe that this doesn't apply to them but sadly, it does as well. There is a widely held belief that they are simply going to walk away with huge smiles on their faces and that they are going to fund their Workers Paradise by pumping oil.

    They may be in for a surprise if they really think that the powers that be are just going to let that happen. Scots themselves have participated in "liberating" or "protecting" the resources of other territories on behalf of the UK for centuries. They may want to ask themselves if they are certain they won't find themselves on the receiving end of such a policy some day.

    Then there is the question of National Debt, a very significant share of which was run up by Scottish Banks. Scottish Banks were in fact massively over represented in the recent Casino Banking debacle. Perhaps the Nationalists think that "because we are 9% of the population we own 9% of the debt" but again, others may beg to differ.

    The Independence movement simply doesn't make much sense, whichever way you look at it. The only ones who will benefit are a few opportunists. The Scottish population aren't going to become wealthy from this, they're not going to become any "freer" than they already are. At best, they're going to have something to brag about in the pub on dominoes night, congratulating themselves on their grand final victory............
    ~ **** Democracy! It's 2 wolves and 1 sheep deciding what's for dinner.

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    Senior Member Vectis's Avatar
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    A group of bickering autonomous republics (scotland,wales,catalonia walonia etc) is just what the jews want. These subnations are too small and weak to exist on their own and will always be dependant on the EU and IMF. It is Divide and Conquer again.

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    Senior Member Hrogar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamar Fox View Post
    But that isn't what will happen. The SNP is more leftist than the current government of Britain. They're not remotely interested in defying modern political ideologies and re-establishing an ethnic Scottish identity.
    A break away from modernism is exactly what will happen. And the problems of Scotland, England or the Netherlands are irrelevant compared to the problems the whole of Europe face. We all share the same problems. For example, England did not join the euro, but is nevertheless eaten away by a sick banking system, like other European countries. And England is also flooded with non-European immigrants with high birth rates. And all these nations are betrayed by sell-out governments built on the same modernistic principles and ideologies.

    It is human nature that will start to resist this process. Simply because it contradicts the psychological and sociological essence of group processes and the naturally born instinct to seek safety with your ethnic group. These are traits shared by all group animals. There will be a counter movement because human nature dictates it.
    The only question is how this will unfold, who will be better organized and thus who will have more control over it.

    It is of paramount importance to use existing feelings of rising European ethnicity and within this movement to use the regionally existing feelings of an own ethnicity.

    And I hate to say it, but their currently is no nationalist or ethnicity based ideological or political group that actually understands and utilizes the fundamental principles of modernism and translates this into a sound new ideology and strategy for the European peoples. And I really do mean none. There are some strains of thought that derive from De Benoist that have potential. But none of them are thoroughly worked out. It is safe to say however, that our struggle can not succeed without it.

    But I do know that this will come to surface. And for the SNP and their independence ideals this means that they are only fuel for this break away process. And both the left wing and right wing are completely based on modernistic principles. That difference is not relevant. So if we can use the SNP, we should. And we really can use it. We should even encourage it. And everyone who care about the English people, including yourself should be encouraging the Scots and use it to undermine your own institutions. Because as long as you remain in the current modernistic playing field, you don't stand a chance to beat the politically correct, globalists and multiculturalists. It's their game and they make up and change the rules as fits them. You can only beat them by robbing them of their ideological safe havens and principles they build upon.

    The only thing we need to be afraid of, is not getting organized in time in order to actively undermine the modernistic power structure. Because then we will become a minority in countries that are no longer our own. We have about 20 years to have turned the tide. After that, the battle will only get increasingly difficult.

    Honor and defend the northern people,
    Honor and defend the northern lands,
    Walk the Northern Path,
    Sigr!

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    Senior Member Wicklowwolf's Avatar
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    But the SNP also considers joining the Euro zone after gaining independence from Great Britain. That means gaining independence from London, but handing it over to unelected EU bureaucrats in Brussels. This borders on schizophrenia and is a very unpatriotic step to take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingBritannia View Post
    They know if they go it alone they will probably suffer the same fate as Ireland and come running back to us begging us to bail them out.
    Ireland didn't get a bailout. The banks got the bailout which the Irish people are mistakenly being made to pay. All Scotland would have to do in a similar situation is to tell the banks to fcuk off, like Iceland did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropkick View Post
    Ireland didn't get a bailout. The banks got the bailout which the Irish people are mistakenly being made to pay. All Scotland would have to do in a similar situation is to tell the banks to fcuk off, like Iceland did.
    The IMF occupied regime in Dublin is taxing Irish citizens out of existence to pay off the gambling debts of the banks. They claim they cannot do as Iceland did, since Ireland is part of the Euro zone. Scotland is heading the same way if they tie themselves to the Euro. The SNP aren't patriots, but puppets for the NWO.

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