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Thread: Richard Dawkins: 'Somebody As Intelligent As Jesus Would Have Been an Atheist'

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    Richard Dawkins: 'Somebody As Intelligent As Jesus Would Have Been an Atheist'

    From The Guardian:

    In the latest in John Harris's National Conversations series of interviews, Richard Dawkins is invited to defend his atheism. What about the comfort, community, and moral education offered by religion?

    Richard Dawkins: 'Somebody as intelligent as Jesus would have been an atheist'

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    Always so arrogant this Dawkins

    "Make strong old dreams lest our world lose heart." -Ezra Pound



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    Quote Originally Posted by Hersir View Post
    Always so arrogant this Dawkins
    That's really killing their arguments if you ask me. The arrogance of atheists. They hate the attitude of religious people while often displaying exactly the same arrogant attitude, in combination with a sense of entitlement and intellectualism. I am smart, so I cannot believe in God. Or: aren't you too intelligent to be religious? I myself cannot stand it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gruno View Post
    That's really killing their arguments if you ask me. The arrogance of atheists. They hate the attitude of religious people while often displaying exactly the same arrogant attitude, in combination with a sense of entitlement and intellectualism. I am smart, so I cannot believe in God. Or: aren't you too intelligent to be religious? I myself cannot stand it.
    The funny thing is that most atheists are more religious in their methods and attitudes than many so-called believers. The fanaticism of the godless is rarely matched by believers because the godless have something to believe in that they can feel, touch, and admire: themselves. Atheists are mostly just egotists who have replaced God (or gods) with themselves.
    οὐκ ἐμοῦ, ἀλλὰ τοῦ λόγου ἀκούσαντας ὁμολογεῖν σοφόν ἐστιν ἓν πάντα εἶναί.
    Heraclitus

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    I am not even willing to watch the video considering the treat title. Like others said it comes across as highly arrogant and presumptuous. Also he is an anti-racist :

    We can happily agree that human racial classification is of no social value and is positively destructive of social and human relations. That is one reason why I object to ticking boxes in forms and why I object to positive discrimination in job selection.
    The sense of honor is of so fine and delicate a nature that
    it is only to be met with in minds which are naturally noble or
    cultivated by good examples and a refined education.
    - Sir Richard Steele

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    I think one of atheism's biggest problems these days can be found in its spokespeople. While I admire Dawkins' outspokenness and confidence, I find him way too intolerant. History has shown us that there is such thing as an intelligent theist. There are more factors contributing to one's religious beliefs than intelligence, and I say this as an open atheist.

    I like many of Dawkins' arguments against Christianity; however, people like him are giving atheists a bad name by making the whole lot of us come across as pompous and intolerant, and I know plenty of atheists who are more tolerant than the majority of active Christians I know (not all - one can't really generalize about the arrogance or intolerance of either religion as a whole).

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    Quote Originally Posted by CruxClaire
    and I know plenty of atheists who are more tolerant than the majority of active Christians I know
    Sadly, this is true. Most atheists can't shed themselves of Christian tolerance even though they free themselves easily from its overt dogma. In fact, in many cases I suspect an atheist rejects Christianity's dogma, not because he's repulsed by the essence of the religion, but because the Christianisation of his spirit (and I suppose with how the word's thrown around by some members, I should stress I'm using 'spirit' figuratively) is so thorough that he no longer requires its explicit moral guidance, and so can shed himself of the religion's dogmatic skin for which he has no more use but continue to live and breathe its fundaments.

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    Actually, my loss of faith came at least somewhat, as you suggested, as a result of the Christianity I was raised with. My dad is strongly Irish Catholic, and I was very strongly dogmatized from a young age.

    What initially turned me towards atheism was the apparent lack of regard for Jesus' teachings shown by many of the most ardent "Jesus Freaks" I regularly saw at the time. I read the Gospels and saw that Jesus taught tolerance, and I noticed that the people always winning the school's "Best Christian Example" awards (I went to a Lutheran middle school) were some of the most intolerant of them all. They treated my atheist friend horribly, and I noticed that this atheist friend was considerably more intelligent than the lot of them. This initial interest was what made me research other religions more, as well as atheism, and I gradually abandoned all the dogma I had previously held close to my heart, until I finally read Sam Harris' Letter to A Christian Nation and realized that I didn't even believe in a deity anymore, thus making my final spiritual break from Christianity. Since then, I've called myself an atheist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CruxClaire View Post
    Actually, my loss of faith came at least somewhat, as you suggested, as a result of the Christianity I was raised with. My dad is strongly Irish Catholic, and I was very strongly dogmatized from a young age.

    What initially turned me towards atheism was the apparent lack of regard for Jesus' teachings shown by many of the most ardent "Jesus Freaks" I regularly saw at the time. I read the Gospels and saw that Jesus taught tolerance, and I noticed that the people always winning the school's "Best Christian Example" awards (I went to a Lutheran middle school) were some of the most intolerant of them all. They treated my atheist friend horribly, and I noticed that this atheist friend was considerably more intelligent than the lot of them. This initial interest was what made me research other religions more, as well as atheism, and I gradually abandoned all the dogma I had previously held close to my heart, until I finally read Sam Harris' Letter to A Christian Nation and realized that I didn't even believe in a deity anymore, thus making my final spiritual break from Christianity. Since then, I've called myself an atheist.
    Exactly. Liberal atheists are much more Christian in spirit than most Christians, which is why they place so high a premium on tolerance and equality. I don't agree that you've made a 'spiritual break' from Christianity at all. Your defence of the Negro in a recent thread was very Christian. The Christian instinct in you was outraged. Someone like me, who is completely detached from Christian morality, couldn't care less about intolerance or unequal treatment.

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    I don't agree that you've made a 'spiritual break' from Christianity at all. Your defence of the Negro in a recent thread was very Christian. The Christian instinct in you was outraged. Someone like me, who is completely detached from Christian morality, couldn't care less about intolerance or unequal treatment.
    I don't think "Christian" morality is exclusive to Christianity and those who have been raised with it. I'm spiritually disconnected with Christianity because I don't believe in God. I think what you're talking about is a moral disconnect from Christianity.

    My morals aren't defined by the rewards or punishments from some invisible deity that they'd inspire. I try to base them on an empathy/Golden Rule principle. If I would be upset if someone did it to me, I try not to do it to others.

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