Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 45

Thread: Richard Dawkins: 'Somebody As Intelligent As Jesus Would Have Been an Atheist'

  1. #11
    Account Inactive

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last Online
    Thursday, May 3rd, 2012 @ 09:29 PM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    Mainly Yorkshire
    Country
    England England
    State
    Yorkshire Yorkshire
    Location
    Yorkshire
    Gender
    Age
    35
    Politics
    Libertarian
    Posts
    2,109
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    44
    Thanked in
    44 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by CruxClaire
    I don't think "Christian" morality is exclusive to Christianity and those who have been raised with it.
    It's exclusive to people who've been influenced by it, second hand or not. Of course, there are comparable sentiments in Buddhism, but as concerns Europeans, the origin of universal tolerance is Christian.

    I'm spiritually disconnected with Christianity because I don't believe in God. I think what you're talking about is a moral disconnect from Christianity.
    Disbelief in God would be an intellectual disconnect from Christianity. I don't use spiritual in a literal sense, since I don't belief in such things. A spiritual connection with Christianity means a continued implicit acceptance of its assumptions and moral code, such as the

    empathy/Golden Rule principle.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Hamar Fox For This Useful Post:


  3. #12
    Funding Member
    „Friend of Germanics”
    Funding Membership Inactive
    Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Online
    Saturday, July 3rd, 2021 @ 04:11 AM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Ancestry
    Albion.
    Subrace
    Alpinid
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    New York New York
    Gender
    Age
    45
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    'anti-semite'
    Politics
    Republicanism, tradition.
    Religion
    Roman Catholic
    Posts
    1,814
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    51
    Thanked in
    44 Posts
    Socrates wasn't an atheist.
    Plato wasn't an atheist.
    Aristotle wasn't an atheist.
    Posidonius wasn't an atheist.
    Isaac Newton wasn't an atheist.
    Einstein wasn't an atheist.

    Etc.

    Why not pick actual geniuses from history rather than someone like Jesus who, outside of the Christian scribblings, has very little evidence to support his existence?

  4. #13
    Senior Member
    CruxClaire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last Online
    Thursday, August 23rd, 2012 @ 02:32 AM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Ancestry
    Irish, German, Polish, Scottish, English
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    Illinois Illinois
    Location
    Chicago area
    Gender
    Family
    Youth
    Occupation
    Student
    Politics
    Center-left
    Religion
    Atheist
    Posts
    197
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    Of course, there are comparable sentiments in Buddhism
    Actually, I can readily admit to being influenced by Buddhism. I wouldn't call myself a Buddhist, but I admire some of their beliefs. I embrace some of the philosophical beliefs of Buddhism, but you wouldn't catch me worshiping Buddha. I find Taoism interesting as well.

    The whole idea with Christian morals is that one must act in a certain way to appease or mimic a deity. While many of my moral principles are similar to those preached in the Bible (although there are many moral contradictions within the Bible, especially between the Old and New Testaments), I consider my moral compass independent of Christianity because it's not rooted in the belief that God will punish me if I don't follow the rules. I value justice as well as empathy, and justice certainly isn't exclusive to Christianity either. Sikhism and Hinduism, to name a couple, seem to advocate empathy and tolerance.

    I think moral codes are more cultural than religious. Take the morals of slavery - plenty of Christians have used the Bible to justify slavery, and others to condemn it. And one can see the same phenomenon today with the defense/condemnation of homosexual marriage.

    Why not pick actual geniuses from history rather than someone like Jesus who, outside of the Christian scribblings, has very little evidence to support his existence?
    The individuals you named weren't atheists, but weren't necessarily Christians either. You've selected some people that seemed more into deism. They certainly weren't Christian apologetic. Anyhow, I don't think the intelligence of a body of people can be determined by a few select people from that body. If someone gave me the names of a few politicians who honestly helped their countries, I wouldn't be persuaded that politicians are, as a whole, an honest and well-meaning group of people.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to CruxClaire For This Useful Post:


  6. #14
    Active Funding Member
    „Friend of Germanics”
    Skadi Funding Member
    renownedwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last Online
    1 Day Ago @ 08:54 PM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Location
    Wales
    Gender
    Family
    In a steady relationship
    Religion
    Germanic Heathenry
    Posts
    832
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    29
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    60
    Thanked in
    36 Posts
    Somebody as supposedly intelligent and obviously pompous as Richard Dawkins would surely have to concede that he can prove neither so shouldn't espouse his contradictory anti-faith theories that are based upon a faith of their own.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to renownedwolf For This Useful Post:


  8. #15
    Senior Member
    RoyBatty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Last Online
    Monday, July 12th, 2021 @ 03:22 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Paleface
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Gender
    Occupation
    Arbeit Macht Frei
    Politics
    Rightwing / Socialist
    Posts
    2,442
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    31
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    65
    Thanked in
    52 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by renownedwolf View Post
    Somebody as supposedly intelligent and obviously pompous as Richard Dawkins would surely have to concede that he can prove neither so shouldn't espouse his contradictory anti-faith theories that are based upon a faith of their own.
    Yes, one would have thought that this would have been self-explanatory to a man of his "caliber".

    As you mention, the ironic thing about it is that him & his pals from the ''British Humanist Society'' are on such an active and vocal anti-religion crusade (not even missing a beat to ask for donations as many a church would) that one can't help but suspect that they are operating their own Cult of Atheism, a church in itself.



    One can only but wonder why those bastions of Liberalism and Progressive reporting such as The Guardian and Auntie Beeb (the BBC for those of you who aren't familiar with the term) consider him important enough to grant him endless precious airtime and column space in order to enlighten the rest of us with his sage and wisdom.......
    ~ **** Democracy! It's 2 wolves and 1 sheep deciding what's for dinner.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to RoyBatty For This Useful Post:


  10. #16
    Senior Member
    CruxClaire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last Online
    Thursday, August 23rd, 2012 @ 02:32 AM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Ancestry
    Irish, German, Polish, Scottish, English
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    Illinois Illinois
    Location
    Chicago area
    Gender
    Family
    Youth
    Occupation
    Student
    Politics
    Center-left
    Religion
    Atheist
    Posts
    197
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    I don't like that agnostics are supposedly an exclusive group - I think one can be an agnostic theist, an agnostic atheist, or a pure agnostic (undecided/don't care). I think anyone who refuses to acknowledge the possibility that he/she isn't certain of God's existence/nonexistence is either a)lying, b)close-minded, or c)a complete lunatic.

    Where are you on the "Dawkins Scale"?
    1..Strong Theist: I do not question the existence of God, I KNOW he exists.
    2..De-facto Theist: I cannot know for certain but I strongly believe in God and I live my life on the assumption that he is there.
    3..Weak Theist: I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.
    4..Pure Agnostic: God’s existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.
    5..Weak Atheist: I do not know whether God exists but I’m inclined to be skeptical.
    6..De-facto Atheist: I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable and I live my life under the assumption that he is not there.
    7..Strong Atheist: I am 100% sure that there is no God.
    I'm a six most of the time. Some days I'll drop to a five, or somewhere between five and six.

  11. #17
    Active Funding Member
    „Friend of Germanics”
    Skadi Funding Member
    renownedwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last Online
    1 Day Ago @ 08:54 PM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Location
    Wales
    Gender
    Family
    In a steady relationship
    Religion
    Germanic Heathenry
    Posts
    832
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    29
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    60
    Thanked in
    36 Posts
    None of them as I have more than one God! Lol!

  12. #18
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Online
    Tuesday, June 19th, 2018 @ 03:40 PM
    Ethnicity
    German,Irish/Scottish/English,Italian, and Old Dutch/Swedish colonial bloodlines
    Ancestry
    Germany,Ireland/Scotland, and Italy
    Subrace
    Faelid + Nord Atlantid
    Country
    United States United States
    Gender
    Family
    Youth
    Politics
    Political Anarchist
    Religion
    Catholic
    Posts
    518
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    7
    Thanked in
    7 Posts
    I don't see Richard Dawkins as an ideal atheist, just as much as I don't find some fundamental Christians to not be ideal Christians. He should know that intelligence is not a thing strictly limited to atheism anymore then stupidity can be associated with it at times.

    The one sided egotism of Dawkins shows a kink in his armour which exposes a weak ego. I think that reality and nature have tendencies towards atheism, but on this grounds we should be so egotistical to use these tendencies to justify our own false appeals to authority.

    I think at the same time we run into a narcissitic egotism in religion which tries to give off the illusion that it has detached itself from self-interests when this is completely contradictory with the designs of nature.

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to GeistFaust For This Useful Post:


  14. #19
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Online
    Tuesday, June 19th, 2018 @ 03:40 PM
    Ethnicity
    German,Irish/Scottish/English,Italian, and Old Dutch/Swedish colonial bloodlines
    Ancestry
    Germany,Ireland/Scotland, and Italy
    Subrace
    Faelid + Nord Atlantid
    Country
    United States United States
    Gender
    Family
    Youth
    Politics
    Political Anarchist
    Religion
    Catholic
    Posts
    518
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    7
    Thanked in
    7 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Eccardus Teutonicus View Post
    The funny thing is that most atheists are more religious in their methods and attitudes than many so-called believers. The fanaticism of the godless is rarely matched by believers because the godless have something to believe in that they can feel, touch, and admire: themselves. Atheists are mostly just egotists who have replaced God (or gods) with themselves.
    This is the problem with a lot of atheists and even religious people is that they find themselves in a pandora's box. This pandora's box puts them in a position where they become hypocrites by assuming the same degree of narcissism and sublime selfishness to counter the other side's deficiences.

    I think its all a game of emotive projection where each side projects the faults and mistakes of the other side onto each other. I think few are exempt and that we are all to some degree or another narcissitic regarding matters which are suspended beyond our ego.

    This is just the common nature of mankind and I don't think its a malady which can be rid from us, at best we can only mitigate it into intellectual or productive activity within the confines of cultural or social ambitions and pursuits.

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to GeistFaust For This Useful Post:


  16. #20
    Senior Member
    CruxClaire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last Online
    Thursday, August 23rd, 2012 @ 02:32 AM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Ancestry
    Irish, German, Polish, Scottish, English
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    Illinois Illinois
    Location
    Chicago area
    Gender
    Family
    Youth
    Occupation
    Student
    Politics
    Center-left
    Religion
    Atheist
    Posts
    197
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    Atheists are mostly just egotists who have replaced God (or gods) with themselves.
    This is true of some of them, indeed, but I wouldn't say it's the majority. I personally flirt with pantheism in my beliefs a bit: my deity is the universe itself. It's so beautiful and vast and beyond all understanding and comprehension. Atheists have something more tangible to believe in, yes, but it's something that extends beyond themselves. I've read all or parts of books from some of the most prominent atheists (Dawkins, Hitchens, and Harris), and they've all mentioned the vastness of the universe and expressed awe at it like a theist might express awe at a deity.


    A picture of a star birth region in the galaxy from the Hubble telescope


    Lightning in volcanic ash clouds

    These scenes reveal a power and complexity that I can't understand, one too great to have ever been devised by the mind of a deity, in my opinion. My own mind is feeble and insignificant, and I think my consciousness will be lost forever when I die.

    I don't really think my beliefs, or lack thereof, are more egotistical than those of any Christian. I don't believe God loves me or pays attention to me personally, or answers my prayers while ignoring most of the bleeding world. I don't think there is a special place in eternal paradise for me, or that people are less worthy than I am and are therefore destined for eternal torture.

    I can see how it makes sense to think that atheists value their own perceptions above all else, but I think that's an oversimplification

    Also, for the Dawkins scale, that should read God or gods rather than just captial-G God.

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to CruxClaire For This Useful Post:


Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Classify Richard Dawkins
    By Pro-Alpine in forum Anthropological Taxonomy
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: Friday, April 15th, 2011, 11:36 PM
  2. Prof Richard Dawkins Drives Support for London's First Atheist Bus Advert
    By Hanna in forum Agnosticism, Atheism, & Irreligion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: Monday, May 31st, 2010, 01:46 AM
  3. Professor Richard Dawkins Wants to Convert Islamic World to Evolution
    By Renwein in forum Agnosticism, Atheism, & Irreligion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: Saturday, August 29th, 2009, 12:50 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •