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Thread: The Use of NS Imagery by the Hells Angels and Other Non-NS Movements

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    Senior Member The Dagda's Avatar
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    Post The Use of NS Imagery by the Hells Angels and Other Non-NS Movements

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    We hear much mention made of 'symbols', and yet the NSDAP did not invent ANY of its symbols!
    They used symbols which were already in use!
    With regard to the symbols;
    The Hells Angels motorcycle gang used NS symbols, in fact they used repros
    of German military and political insignia, does this mean that they are NS?
    Is this the vision that Adolf Hitler had of the German Reich, gangs of drug users and criminals creating terror against ordinary people? The Hells Angels
    don't allow black members, so you could argue that they are WN.
    Last edited by Moody; Thursday, July 8th, 2004 at 05:26 PM. Reason: split thread

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: The meaning of "Aryan" and how it applies to National Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dagda
    The Hells Angels motorcycle gang used NS symbols, in fact they used repros of German military and political insignia, does this mean that they are NS?
    Is this the vision that Adolf Hitler had of the German Reich, gangs of drug users and criminals creating terror against ordinary people? The Hells Angels
    don't allow black members, so you could argue that they are WN.
    The Dagda makes an important point, which touches on what could be a vast area of study, i.e., the use of N-S symbols/atmosphere by groups in the post war period.
    There was a certain glamour in the SS imagery for example, which was intensified in the immediate post-war period by a general demonisation of the Third Reich.
    This meant that N-S imagery became a by-word for anti-establishment groups in the West.
    Of course, Hitler didn't intend this out-come, but we must be careful here lest we throw the Aryan baby out with the degenerate bath-water.

    When gangs of disaffected white youths got together in the biker movement, weren't they really demonstrating a longing for the Aryan past which the Allies had so cruelly cut them off from in their war against N-S?

    Think of Odin's Wild Hunt galloping across the Northern sky - this is like the biker gangs. The use of the Steel Helm by the Hells Angels was a very natural thing; they were drawn to one of the most sublime designs of helmet in all history. Same with the symbols - the Iron Cross [pre-N-S of course], the Swastika, the SS Runes etc., etc.,
    All this was Blood affinity.

    Kenneth Anger's films look at these connections;



    Use of drugs? Is this so non-N-S?
    Isn't the use of intoxicants Aryan per se?
    Surely it is the puritan Christian that bans all intoxicants.

    Terrorising?
    Well, what other response is there to a Judaised world?

    And see how this imagery goes in into the Heavy Metal music scene, with people like Lemmy of Hawkwind/ Motorhead; he is a long-time collector of 'Nazi memorabilia'.


    Ian [Lemmy] Kilmister

    So I would say that the N-S has had an important impact here via the Hells Angels etc.,

    The Fuhrer's Revenge is multifaceted.
    Last edited by Moody; Monday, March 20th, 2006 at 06:17 PM.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member The Dagda's Avatar
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    Post Re: The meaning of "Aryan" and how it applies to National Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    The Dagda makes an important point, which touches on what could be a vast area of study, i.e., the use of N-S symbols/atmosphere by groups in the post war period.
    There was a certain glamour in the SS imagery for example, which was intensified in the immediate post-war period by a general demonisation of the Third Reich.
    This meant that N-S imagery became a by-word for anti-establishment groups in the West.
    Of course, Hitler didn't intend this out-come, but we must be careful here lest we throw the Aryan baby out with the degenerate bath-water.

    When gangs of disaffected white youths got together in the biker movement, weren't they really demonstrating a longing for the Aryan past which the Allies had so cruelly cut them off from in their war against N-S?

    Think of Odin's Wild Hunt galloping across the Northern sky - this is like the biker gangs. The use of the Steel Helm by the Hells Angels was a very natural thing; they were drawn to one of the most sublime designs of helmet in all history. Same with the symbols - the Iron Cross [pre-N-S of course], the Swastika, the SS Runes etc., etc.,
    All this was Blood affinity.

    Kenneth Anger's films look at these connections;



    Use of drugs? Is this so non-N-S?
    Isn't the use of intoxicants Aryan per se?
    Surely it is the puritan Christian that bans all intoxicants.

    Terrorising?
    Well, what other response is there to a Judaised world?

    And see how this imagery goes in into the Heavy Metal music scene, with people like Lemmy of Hawkwind/ Motorhead; he is a long-time collector of 'Nazi memorabilia'.


    Ian [Lemmy] Kilmister

    So I would say that the N-S has had an important impact here via the Hells Angels etc.,

    The Fuhrer's Revenge is multifaceted.
    The allies demonised National Socialism during and after WW2, they were the
    victors and the victors write history, there is nothing that we can do about that now it's just life.
    The Hells Angels and other disafected youths in 60s and 70s America and Britain knew very little about the true meaning of National Socialism, they knew what they heard on tv or what they read in books, books that were
    written by non-NS.
    Teenagers are well known to rebel against the system and they believed that
    the "NAZIS" were evil people who would reek havoc wherever they go, we have to remember that the war was still fresh in the minds of many people at this time.
    As for Lemmy, well I'm a fan of motorhead, but he is no National Socialist.

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: The meaning of "Aryan" and how it applies to National Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dagda
    Teenagers are well known to rebel against the system and they believed that the "NAZIS" were evil people ...
    But then surely N-S itself was a rebellion against the SAME "system"; i.e., against the system of liberalism, of democracy etc.,

    So in a way, such rebels have something very REAL in common with N-S that goes beyond the mere caricatures of N-S by Hollywood.

    I supose I'm saying that despite all the distortions and misunderstanding of N-S fostered by the Judaised Western propaganda machines, there is still something classically 'N-S' in the Hells Angels' rebel stance.

    I was thinking how Charles Manson, for example, was held up as a N-S guru by the N-S 'Siege' group.
    Mike Moynihan mentions this here;
    http://home.online.no/~janbruun/writings/blood.html
    Review of book here;
    http://thescorp.multics.org/18siege.html

    As for Lemmy, well I'm a fan of motorhead, but he is no National Socialist.
    But are there not parallels with Lemmy's approach to music and N-S?

    Isn't his style of rock not a kind of illegitimate off-spring of N-S?

    And is he any LESS a National Socialist than someone who mimics the costumes and symbols of the N-S Party of the 1930s?

    IF [hypothetically] there was an equivalent of the NSDAP today, would its leaders look more like Lemmy and Manson, or like an imitation of Adolf Hitler?

    Question:
    Where is the N-S spirit STRONGEST today?
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member The Dagda's Avatar
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    Post Re: The meaning of "Aryan" and how it applies to National Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    But then surely N-S itself was a rebellion against the SAME "system"; i.e., against the system of liberalism, of democracy etc.,

    So in a way, such rebels have something very REAL in common with N-S that goes beyond the mere caricatures of N-S by Hollywood.

    I supose I'm saying that despite all the distortions and misunderstanding of N-S fostered by the Judaised Western propaganda machines, there is still something classically 'N-S' in the Hells Angels' rebel stance.
    There is nothing NS about the Hells Angels. The Hells Angels are anarchists if you want me to label them.
    NS is about nation, society and order.

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    Senior Member The Dagda's Avatar
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    Post Re: The meaning of "Aryan" and how it applies to National Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    But are there not parallels with Lemmy's approach to music and N-S?

    Isn't his style of rock not a kind of illegitimate off-spring of N-S?

    And is he any LESS a National Socialist than someone who mimics the costumes and symbols of the N-S Party of the 1930s?

    IF [hypothetically] there was an equivalent of the NSDAP today, would its leaders look more like Lemmy and Manson, or like an imitation of Adolf Hitler?
    Ok, now you've lost me, putting an Iron Cross on your jacket does not make you a National Socialist.

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    Post Re: The meaning of "Aryan" and how it applies to National Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    Question:
    Where is the N-S spirit STRONGEST today?
    That is a very good question, and it depends on what you mean by spirit.
    My answer is; In the hearts of NS soldiers who fought and lived through WW2.

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    Post Re: The meaning of "Aryan" and how it applies to National Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dagda
    Ok, now you've lost me, putting an Iron Cross on your jacket does not make you a National Socialist.
    He probably meant one doesn't have to dress up like a 30's nazi to be National-Socialist in spirit.

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post N-S Imagery among Hells Angels etc.,

    Quote Originally Posted by Siegfried Augustus
    He probably meant one doesn't have to dress up like a 30's nazi to be National-Socialist in spirit.
    Yeah - someone who imitates the style and symbols of 1930s N-S may be further away from the spirit of N-S than a Hells Angel or a Charles Manson.

    How was it that James Mason of Siege, a convinced N-S, thought that Charles Manson was the N-S guru of the modern age?
    Last edited by Moody; Monday, March 20th, 2006 at 06:19 PM.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: The meaning of "Aryan" and how it applies to National Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dagda
    That is a very good question, and it depends on what you mean by spirit.
    My answer is; In the hearts of NS soldiers who fought and lived through WW2.
    The question IS a good one, and slightly rhetorical.
    While your answer is sound, it doesn't go far enough to address the word "today".

    To rephrase the question;

    Who or what in the post-war world ['today'] is closest to the N-S Spirit?
    [Spirit meaning the whole content, drives and goals of N-S, not just the trappings].
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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