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Thread: How Compatible are White Nationalism and National Socialism?

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    How Compatible are White Nationalism and National Socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaði
    National Socialism was not and never will be in the genera of WN!
    As White Nationalism [WN] is a more general term than N-S, then I can't see why N-S cannot be included under such an umbrella.

    N-S is definitely Nationalist, and Nationalisms themselves are a genera.

    Of course, there are all kinds of Nationalisms - White/ Black, Asian, etc.,

    So we might say that the genus 'WN' derives from the genera 'Nationalisms', and applies to those Nationalisms which are native to Europe and Europeans [when their civilisations were spread to extra-European theatres, such as North America, Australia etc.,].

    Clearly, N-S is a species of the genus WN by that definition.
    Last edited by Moody; Thursday, July 8th, 2004 at 05:27 PM. Reason: split thread
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
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    Senior Member The Dagda's Avatar
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    Post Re: The meaning of "Aryan" and how it applies to National Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    As White Nationalism [WN] is a more general term than N-S, then I can't see why N-S cannot be included under such an umbrella.

    N-S is definitely Nationalist, and Nationalisms themselves are a genera.

    Of course, there are all kinds of Nationalisms - White/ Black, Asian, etc.,

    So we might say that the genus 'WN' derives from the genera 'Nationalisms', and applies to those Nationalisms which are native to Europe and Europeans [when their civilisations were spread to extra-European theatres, such as North America, Australia etc.,].

    Clearly, N-S is a species of the genus WN by that definition.
    Adolf Hitler was only really concerned with Germany and Germanic identity, he
    hated the Slavs who are also White, so how can NS be so closely linked to WN ?

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: The meaning of "Aryan" and how it applies to National Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dagda
    Adolf Hitler was only really concerned with Germany and Germanic identity, he
    hated the Slavs who are also White, so how can NS be so closely linked to WN ?
    Taking what you say about Hitler on face value in order to avoid that particular argument [Hitler and the Slavs etc.,], I will say this again.

    WN is the GENUS; N-S is A SPECIES of this genus.

    The genus WN includes all kinds of WN, whether Slavic, Germanic, Irish, Croat, Pan-European etc.,

    All these are species of the genus WN by dint of their being Nationalisms and White!

    It is a simple matter of classification; viz:

    Genera: Nationalisms,

    Genus: WN;

    Species; e.g., N-S.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member The Dagda's Avatar
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    Post Re: The meaning of "Aryan" and how it applies to National Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    WN is the GENUS; N-S is A SPECIES of this genus.

    The genus WN includes all kinds of WN, whether Slavic, Germanic, Irish, Croat, Pan-European etc.,

    All these are species of the genus WN by dint of their being Nationalisms and White!

    It is a simple matter of classification; viz:

    Genera: Nationalisms,

    Genus: WN;

    Species; e.g., N-S.
    National Socialism is an ideology that is available to all nations, not just white ones.The nations you mention are white and in that sence what you are saying is true, but, the NSJAP are not white and they still follow National Socialism.
    To put it another way, you can be a White Nationalist and not be a National Socialist, and you can be a National Socialist and not be white.

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    Senior Member ogenoct's Avatar
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    Post Re: The meaning of "Aryan" and how it applies to National Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dagda
    Adolf Hitler was only really concerned with Germany and Germanic identity, he
    hated the Slavs who are also White, so how can NS be so closely linked to WN ?
    An analogy: Early Christianity was exclusively reserved for Jews before Saul/Paul started preaching it wholesale, incorporating as many Gentiles as possible into the new faith. National Socialism could be viewed in the same light. While early NS, supervised by ethnocentric chauvinists such as Hitler and Himmler, was certainly meant for the Germanic race only, the introduction of the Waffen-SS changed all that (even contrary to the beliefs of the Reichsfuehrer-SS himself!). The Waffen-SS was truly a pan-Aryan Army of Anarchs (incorporating many Slavic divisions into its ranks, even some non-White ones, such as the Indian SS-Division "Azad Hind" - fighting for a new Aryan Empire from Europe to India). Hence, one could argue that, if National Socialism would have had the chance to develop beyond its 12 years in power, it would have progressed into a truly pan-European belief system, a system that would have been the new faith for ALL Europids. Naturally, Germans would always have been the "chosen people" of this new faith as the Jews are the "chosen ones" for most hardcore Christians today. I proclaim that National SOCIALISM is the Way of the Future for Aryan Man!

    Constantin
    Last edited by ogenoct; Friday, July 9th, 2004 at 01:04 AM.

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: The meaning of "Aryan" and how it applies to National Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dagda
    National Socialism is an ideology that is available to all nations, not just white ones.
    That goes against the position you held in your previous post where you said that it was "concerned only with Germany and German identity".

    As Germany is a White Nation, then N-S must logically be a form of WN.

    Those that follow classic N-S would see it as a particularly Germanic form of WN, and 'not for export'.

    Of course, it is the ideologically 'Nationalist' aspect of N-S which allows it to be expanded into the genera 'Nationalisms' [and therefore beyond the genus WN], as you now say.

    But this means that the emphasis on 'Nordics' [see Rosenberg's 'Myth of the 20th Century'] or 'Aryans' [see Hitler's 'Mein Kampf'] has to be ignored; many would say that this dilutes N-S, or else makes another species which we could call Non-Aryan N-S, Non-White N-S, [or else Asian-N-S etc., as is applicable].

    You can be a White Nationalist and not be a National Socialist, and you can be a National Socialist and not be white.
    The latter is only true if the aforementioned qualifications are used [i.e., to be a 'non-White N-S' is itself another species which should come under the genera Nationalisms, and not under the genus WN].

    Of course, no one is arguing that you cannot be WN and not N-S; that is the purpose of categorising WN as a genus, and N-S as a species [i.e., a subgroup of the genus].

    So this discussion is fruitful; I say that non-White N-S is another species, separate from N-S [but related of course], that comes under the genera Nationalisms, not under the genus WN.

    Genera;
    A)Nationalisms

    A1) White Nationationalism [WN]

    A2) Non-White Nationalism [NWN]

    Genus;
    A1) WN
    Species of WN;
    i) N-S
    ii) Pan Europeanism
    iii) Italian Fascism

    etc.,

    Genus
    A2) NWN
    Species of NWN;
    i) Asian N-S
    ii) Pan-Arabism
    iii) Black African Nationalism

    etc., etc.,
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member The Dagda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ogenoct
    The Waffen-SS was truly a pan-Aryan Army of Anarchs (incorporating many Slavic divisions into its ranks, even some non-White ones, such as the Indian SS-Division "Azad Hind" - fighting for a new Aryan Empire from Europe to India). Hence, one could argue that, if National Socialism would have had the chance to develop beyond its 12 years in power, it would have progressed into a truly pan-European belief system, a system that would have been the new faith for ALL Europids. Naturally, Germans would always have been the "chosen people" of this new faith as the Jews are the "chosen ones" for most hardcore Christians today. I proclaim that National SOCIALISM is the Way of the Future for Aryan Man! Constantin
    The waffen SS used many eastern European soldiers as cannon fodder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    That goes against the position you held in your previous post where you said that it was "concerned only with Germany and German identity".

    The latter is only true if the aforementioned qualifications are used [i.e., to be a 'non-White N-S' is itself another species which should come under the genera Nationalisms, and not under the genus WN].

    Of course, no one is arguing that you cannot be WN and not N-S; that is the purpose of categorising WN as a genus, and N-S as a species [i.e., a subgroup of the genus].

    So this discussion is fruitful; I say that non-White N-S is another species, separate from N-S [but related of course], that comes under the genera Nationalisms, not under the genus WN.
    I said Adolf Hitler was only concerned with Germany and Germanic identity.NS is available to all.

    How is non-White NS seperate from White NS ? The ideology remains the same no matter what nation or people you apply it to.
    Last edited by Moody; Wednesday, September 13th, 2006 at 06:12 PM.

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: The meaning of "Aryan" and how it applies to National Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dagda
    I said Adolf Hitler was only concerned with Germany and Germanic identity.NS is available to all.

    How is non-White NS seperate from White NS ? The ideology remains the same no matter what nation or people you apply it to.
    Wasn't Hitler central to N-S?

    Non-White N-S separates from N-S because of the racial element, which is vitally important for N-S.

    Is N-S a racial doctrine or not?

    A N-S without Hitler and without race must be a separate species of N-S; I call it non-White N-S.
    Last edited by Moody; Friday, July 9th, 2004 at 07:53 PM.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member The Dagda's Avatar
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    Post Re: The meaning of "Aryan" and how it applies to National Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    Is N-S a racial doctrine or not?
    Yes, but it can apply to any race.
    Eg, the NSJAP are Japanese, so NS to them will preserve Japans people and culture and of course the nation.

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: The meaning of "Aryan" and how it applies to National Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dagda
    Yes, but it can apply to any race.
    Eg, the NSJAP are Japanese, so NS to them will preserve Japans people and culture and of course the nation.
    So therefore, the NSDAP variety of N-S must come under White Nationalism, while the NSJAP variety of N-S must come under Asian Nationalism.

    What the NSDAP and the NSJAP have in common must come under the genera of 'Nationalisms' per se.

    So whatever way you slice it, if you regard the NSDAP as being TRUE N-S, then you must agree that that form of N-S is a type of WN.
    As the Germans invented N-S, then N-S must fundamentally be a form of WN which admitted to specieisation into other forms, such as non-White N-S.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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