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Thread: Battle of Agincourt - October 25th, 1415

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godwinson View Post
    Actually, Neo, that's not too far removed from reality!

    A good bowman could loose 15 arrows a minute and if there were 5,000 archers in the English ranks (as records suggest) then you've got something like 75,000 arrows coming at you per minute.

    The sky must have been literally filled with them
    A company of well trained longbowmen would have been extremely effective even in the battle of Waterloo in 1815, or for that matter in Bull Run. The punch and accuracy of a longbow on 150-200 yards is at least as good as thatof a musket.

    The reason they went obsolete was the cost and time to train a good longbow archer and formation tactics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfadur View Post
    Actually, it was the Battle of Crecy that broke the laws of chivalry. It was so shocking for the French nobility at the time, because it was such a violation of the Indo-European caste system. This was the first time the warrior-aristocracy got slaughtered by the peasant class on the battlefield. The English, who were shrewder, simply didn't care about abstract things like "chivalry" and "knightly values", but went the pragmatic route.

    As Neophyte said, it was a victory for social justice. The main reason the knights were valued so highly, and why they could set the standards of society ("the laws of chivalry"), was not just because of their noble blood but mainly because they were the best fighters. The ultimate attack on the battlefield was the heavy cavalry charge. The knights were the last incarnation of the Indo-European warrior caste, and remained so for centuries simply because they were the most efficient killers. As we saw, the Welsh peasant longbowmen proved to be better killers.

    (The French had the purest form of the medieval caste system, that existed in all of Europe. It was the noble knights on the top, and the peasants on the bottom. Soon enough, the French armies had a huge problem dealing with powerful infantry, like the Welsh longbowmen or the Flemish pikemen.)
    Accepted.
    I stand corrected.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Wulfram's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Skannon View Post

    The reason they went obsolete was the cost and time to train a good longbow archer and formation tactics.
    No, they stopped using them long before that because the forests were being depleted.

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    A mounted heavy cavalryman was worth about 80 foot soldiers because the coordination within the armies of that day was so bad. You basically rounded up some people—some very well trained, others not so trained—put them in a line and went at it.

    As coordination and control on the battle field improves, armies begin to operate with smaller and smaller units and this gives them more flexibility and adaptability and allows them to concentrate fire power where it will have the best effect. See e.g. the improvements of Maurice of Nassau, Gustavus Adolphus and how these were used in the 30-years war and by Cromwell in the English Civil War.

    When you get to Waterloo, a cavalry charge against infantry is again as effective as it would have been against a Roman legion; i.e. the disciplined and well trained infantry forms squares and bites back with a vengeance.

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    Senior Member Herr Weigelt's Avatar
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    It really was a great victory for England. I still think there were a lot of things the French could've done differently to even or win the battle. But it was basically a bunch of pissed off nobles and knights against a group of very well trained and prepared peasants and also mounted and unmounted knights lead by the king himself in a desperate battle to survive and win the day.
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    "Get the blacks out of my country." - Queen Elizabeth I

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