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Thread: My Genetic Genealogy

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    Post My Genetic Genealogy

    Both me and my mother tested 100% European on 23andme with the highest global similarity to Northern Europeans. Although all you can rule out from that is african or far eastern Mongoloid ancestry, it doesn't really reslove the question of Middle Eastern/Jewish ancestry. Because if you have some of that it will just show up as European, therefore in my opinion "Caucasian" would have been a better term for the European. But it's good to know that we have no nigger or east asian admixture.


    My mother's global similarity to Near Easterners was 67.18 percent. That's quite a bit high, but it's not the highest I've seen for Northern Europeans. Whether it's high enough to indicate Middle Eastern ancestry I do not know. But I can say for sure that it is far less than her Northern European similarity with 67.88, and we have no known Jewish ancestry, or anything like that, even though I haven't figured out her father's mother's side in terms of paper trail genealogy. Both of us are placed in the German population cluster on advanced global similarity, in the upper left hand periphery, and based on my knowledge (I may be wrong though) that means we are most genetically similar to the German people .


    My mother's Dodecad DIY results

    11.18% East_European
    50.47% West_European
    24.36% Mediterranean
    0.00% Neo_African
    10.01% West_Asian
    0.36% South_Asian
    1.25% Northeast_Asian
    0.04% Southeast_Asian
    0.00% East_African
    2.24% Southwest_Asian
    0.00% Northwest_African
    0.08% Palaeo_African

    top 23 populations

    [1,] "N._European" "4.799"
    [2,] "CEU" "4.9129"
    [3,] "Argyll_1KG" "6.0608"
    [4,] "Orcadian" "6.7995"
    [5,] "Orkney_1KG" "7.1026"
    [6,] "German_D" "7.5499"
    [7,] "Mixed_Germanic_D" "11.434"
    [8,] "French" "12.4916"
    [9,] "French_D" "12.9967"
    [10,] "Dutch_D" "13.1827"
    [11,] "Slovenian" "15.4653"
    [12,] "Kent_1KG" "15.6064"
    [13,] "British_Isles_D" "17.6061"
    [14,] "British_D" "17.6641"
    [15,] "Cornwall_1KG" "18.2753"
    [16,] "Swedish_D" "19.8374"
    [17,] "Hungarians" "20.4611"
    [18,] "Irish_D" "20.7565"
    [19,] "Norwegian_D" "21.1287"
    [20,] "French_Basque" "25.5569"
    [21,] "Portuguese_D" "26.308"
    [22,] "Tuscan_H" "26.834"
    [23,] "TSI" "26.9116"


    The binational matches however revealed a bit of a skeleton:



    [1,] "9.1% Lebanese + 90.9% Argyll_1KG" "1.2113"
    [2,] "8.8% Samaritians + 91.2% Argyll_1KG" "1.3048"
    [3,] "13.8% Ashkenazy_Jews + 86.2% Argyll_1KG" "1.3563"
    [4,] "9.3% Greek_D + 90.7% N._European" "1.3988"
    [5,] "13.3% Ashkenazi_D + 86.7% Argyll_1KG" "1.4272"
    [6,] "8.8% Jordanians_19 + 91.2% Argyll_1KG" "1.4868"
    [7,] "9.1% Palestinian + 90.9% Argyll_1KG" "1.4898"
    [8,] "8.8% Druze + 91.2% Argyll_1KG" "1.5015"
    [9,] "8.9% Cypriots + 91.1% Argyll_1KG" "1.5436"
    [10,] "8.8% Syrians + 91.2% Argyll_1KG" "1.5469"
    [11,] "90.1% CEU + 9.9% Stalskoe" "1.5592"
    [12,] "93% CEU + 7% Iranians" "1.5712"
    [13,] "93% CEU + 7% Iranian_D" "1.5988"
    [14,] "8.6% Iraq_Jews + 91.4% Argyll_1KG" "1.6374"
    [15,] "32% Greek_D + 68% Norwegian_D" "1.6415"
    [16,] "9.1% Georgia_Jews + 90.9% Argyll_1KG" "1.6515"
    [17,] "26.4% Balkans_D + 73.6% Mixed_Germanic_D" "1.6627"
    [18,] "92.4% CEU + 7.6% Kurd_D" "1.669"
    [19,] "10.2% Georgia_Jews + 89.8% Orcadian" "1.7124"
    [20,] "8.7% Iranian_Jews + 91.3% Argyll_1KG" "1.7146"
    [21,] "89.3% Orcadian + 10.7% Uzbekistan_Jews" "1.7166"
    [22,] "92.6% CEU + 7.4% Kurd" "1.7359"
    [23,] "90.3% Orcadian + 9.7% Syrians" "1.7409"
    [24,] "6.9% Cypriots + 93.1% N._European" "1.7473"
    [25,] "11.5% Morocco_Jews + 88.5% Argyll_1KG" "1.7542"
    [26,] "10% Lebanese + 90% Orcadian" "1.7779"
    [27,] "89.7% Orcadian + 10.3% Kurd" "1.8034"
    [28,] "88.7% Orkney_1KG + 11.3% Turkish_D" "1.8073"
    [29,] "9.7% Iranian_Jews + 90.3% Orcadian" "1.8135"
    [30,] "7.6% Turkish_D + 92.4% N._European" "1.8143"
    [31,] "10.6% Georgia_Jews + 89.4% Orkney_1KG" "1.8155"
    [32,] "10.4% Lebanese + 89.6% Orkney_1KG" "1.8299"
    [33,] "61.1% Irish_D + 38.9% Romanians_14" "1.8354"
    [34,] "88.9% Orkney_1KG + 11.1% Uzbekistan_Jews" "1.8494"
    [35,] "92.3% CEU + 7.7% Uzbekistan_Jews" "1.8495"
    [36,] "9.5% Iraq_Jews + 90.5% Orcadian" "1.8537"
    [37,] "8.4% S_Italian_D + 91.6% N._European" "1.8643"
    [38,] "92.7% CEU + 7.3% Turks" "1.8787"
    [39,] "9.5% Uzbekistan_Jews + 90.5% Argyll_1KG" "1.8822"
    [40,] "8.8% Azerbaijan_Jews + 91.2% Argyll_1KG" "1.8906"
    [41,] "10.1% Iranian_Jews + 89.9% Orkney_1KG" "1.8961"
    [42,] "6.3% Assyrian_D + 93.7% CEU" "1.8997"
    [43,] "9.9% Iraq_Jews + 90.1% Orkney_1KG" "1.9092"
    [44,] "89.3% Orcadian + 10.7% Turkish_D" "1.9192"
    [45,] "9.9% Azerbaijan_Jews + 90.1% Orcadian" "1.9223"
    [46,] "10.1% Druze + 89.9% Orkney_1KG" "1.926"
    [47,] "89.5% Orkney_1KG + 10.5% Turks" "1.9339"
    [48,] "92.8% CEU + 7.2% Georgia_Jews" "1.9351"
    [49,] "10.2% Sephardic_Jews + 89.8% Argyll_1KG" "1.9411"
    [50,] "10.4% Kurd_D + 89.6% Orcadian" "1.9429"


    These calculations in the binational mode are probably driven by her elevated percentage of West and Southwest Asian in the Dodecad DIY. A certain percentage of West Asian and Southwest Asian does show up in most Europeans but in my case the numbers seem elevated.

    Please don't jump to any conclusions and ban me at this point. I'm still trying to figure out whether the Dodecad Oracle binational matches really mean there is some kind of wog ancestor or it just imputes certain admixture possibilities to bring the percentages closer and which side of the family and when this is would most likely be coming from.

    My mother's ancestry is 1/2 German (though half of it is German-Bohemian from Sudetenland), 1/4 Irish, and 1/4 Flemish (Belgian).


    One person from another board says it might be the Belgian ancestor, but could these percentages possibly be from something way, way back in time, or just a genetic "inclination" towards southeastern Europe?

    I or my family certainly don't belong to any of the suggested minority components by culture, and I have asked several family members if we have some kind of jewish or middle eastern ancestry and they say no! Mom can say without a shadow of doubt that her parents aren't Jewish, also.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wallflower View Post
    My mother's global similarity to Near Easterners was 67.18 percent. That's quite a bit high, but it's not the highest I've seen for Northern Europeans. Whether it's high enough to indicate Middle Eastern ancestry I do not know.
    That’s not unusual. I’ve seen Dutch and French around 67.20%. I have 67.13% and elevated West Asian (peaks in Caucasus-Anatolia), but my Southwest Asian is 0%.

    Both of us are placed in the German population cluster on advanced global similarity, in the upper left hand periphery, and based on my knowledge (I may be wrong though) that means we are most genetically similar to the German people.
    That PCA plot and the algorithm for it is outdated from 2008, and 23andMe really needs to take it down. You can disregard it altogether. Where you plot does not mean you're genetically related to others there. Half European/half East Asian people plot near Uyghurs, but they're not Uyghurs. This one with West Eurasians is better.

    My mother's Dodecad DIY results
    Only thing that sticks out is the Northeast Asian. Some Scandinavians get that much or more though. I’m guessing it’s Amerindian as the East European is too low to be the source of it. I could be wrong. Dr. McDonald tests for that, so send him an email. Other than that from what’s visible, her results look fairly normal for the known ancestry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erich View Post
    Only thing that sticks out is the Northeast Asian. Some Scandinavians get that much or more though. I’m guessing it’s Amerindian as the East European is too low to be the source of it.
    Her Northwest Asian is quite similar to mine, also elevated I had 1.08. We have no known Amerindian ancestry on my mother's side though, since her family has only been in the United States for 3-4 generations, so it's unlikely that an Amerindian could sneak in.
    I guess I was mainly rather hung up on the West Asian and SW Asian, as well as the binational matches, and disappointed that her West Euro percentage was lower than mine, despite her being more German


    This one with West Eurasians is better.
    How can you find out where you would plot on that one?


    Dr. McDonald tests for that, so send him an email.

    I sent him an email from a week or two ago, and I'm still waiting to hear back

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    top 23 populations

    [1,] "N._European" "4.799"
    [2,] "CEU" "4.9129"
    [3,] "Argyll_1KG" "6.0608"
    [4,] "Orcadian" "6.7995"
    [5,] "Orkney_1KG" "7.1026"
    [6,] "German_D" "7.5499"
    [7,] "Mixed_Germanic_D" "11.434"
    [8,] "French" "12.4916"
    [9,] "French_D" "12.9967"
    [10,] "Dutch_D" "13.1827"
    [11,] "Slovenian" "15.4653"
    [12,] "Kent_1KG" "15.6064"
    [13,] "British_Isles_D" "17.6061"
    [14,] "British_D" "17.6641"
    [15,] "Cornwall_1KG" "18.2753"
    [16,] "Swedish_D" "19.8374"
    [17,] "Hungarians" "20.4611"
    [18,] "Irish_D" "20.7565"
    [19,] "Norwegian_D" "21.1287"
    [20,] "French_Basque" "25.5569"
    [21,] "Portuguese_D" "26.308"
    [22,] "Tuscan_H" "26.834"
    [23,] "TSI" "26.9116"

    Another question, in this mode how low does your number have to be inorder for a given population inorder for it to be considered a "good match"? Is there generally admixture if the numbers are too high?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wallflower View Post
    Another question, in this mode how low does your number have to be inorder for a given population inorder for it to be considered a "good match"? Is there generally admixture if the numbers are too high?
    The most important is the number that is the genetic distance to that population. A GD of 1 means you match perfectly. So I would interpret that as you being a Northern European mix. I would ignore anything over a genetic distance of 10 but the top one is the one that matters the most.

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    Also, my mother's EuroDNA calc result, if anyone is familiar with this tool, although it's less reliable than

    Dodecad DIY because of the low number of SNP's used:

    60% SE Euro
    40% NE Euro
    0% #1 Enemy

    Eurasia 7 calculator

    0.00% Sub_Saharan
    13.08% West_Asian
    72.25% Atlantic_Baltic
    0.03% East_Asian
    11.19% Southern
    1.66% South_Asian
    1.79% Siberian

    Euro 7 calculator

    My number is on the left, mother's is on the right

    Caucasus 5.58% 7.36%
    Northwestern 49.56% 45.86%
    Northeastern 20.29% 21.03%
    Southeastern 9.00% 11.20%
    African 0.11% 0.11%
    Far_Asian 1.52% 1.05%
    Southwestern 13.94% 13.40%

    Quote Originally Posted by Erich View Post
    That PCA plot and the algorithm for it is outdated from 2008, and 23andMe really needs to take it down. You can disregard it altogether. Where you plot does not mean you're genetically related to others there.

    But what if where you plot on the global similarity is generally consistent with what your ancestry is? For example, if you have Northern European ancestry and plot somewhere in Northern Europe on the global similarity?

    Are you telling me that I should disregard it all together because we shouldn't have been placed in Northern Europe and Germany?

    It is probably outdated from 2008, but even if it is, the way I look at it is that it's decades more technologically advanced from what they used in 1935 in Nuremburg to determine who was "Aryan".


    Quote Originally Posted by Naglfari View Post
    The most important is the number that is the genetic distance to that population. A GD of 1 means you match perfectly. So I would interpret that as you being a Northern European mix. I would ignore anything over a genetic distance of 10 but the top one is the one that matters the most.


    Looking at the chart, the one at the top is [ 1,] "N._European" "4.799". So is that the one that matters the most? Is that close enough to accurately represent her ancestry? Disregard the ones above 10?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wallflower View Post
    Looking at the chart, the one at the top is [ 1,] "N._European" "4.799". So is that the one that matters the most? Is that close enough to accurately represent her ancestry? Disregard the ones above 10?
    Yes first one is what the program predicts is your mothers ancestry. A mix of Northern European. The next couple are also possibilities but slightly less likely. That is why I said to disregard the higher ones and 10 was to give you realistic leeway. Beyond that is just too far.

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    Here is our results from Dr Mcdonald.


    Me

    Quoting Dr Mcdonald

    "Most likely fit is 87.5% (+- 10.2%) Europe (all Western Europe)
    and 12.5% (+- 10.2%) Europe (various subcontinents)
    which is 100% total Europe

    The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
    most likely at the top
    Spain= 0.265 Irish= 0.735
    French= 0.466 Irish= 0.534
    English= 0.949 Chuvash= 0.051
    Irish= 0.877 Sardinia= 0.123
    Irish= 0.753 Italian= 0.247
    Irish= 0.791 Tuscan= 0.209
    French= 0.754 Finland= 0.246

    however, plain 100% English fits quite OK. This looks like English
    with just a little bit of some Continental."



















    Here is what he had to say about my mother's data

    "Most likely fit is 100% Europe (various subcontinents)

    The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
    most likely at the top
    Russian= 0.240 French= 0.760
    Finland= 0.244 French= 0.756
    Tuscan= 0.271 Irish= 0.729
    Romania= 0.435 Irish= 0.565
    Finland= 0.455 Italian= 0.545

    This is more easterly ... It could be Low Countries, but given what you said
    about your family, more likely English/German or Irish/German. "















    Apparently there is no Amerindian ancestry, despite the higher Northeast Asian percentages in Dodecad.

    I'm not sure what to make of those Mideast segments though, on 14 and the X, despite testing 100% subcontinent Europe. McDonald believes it's "long ago Jewish Armenian/Georgian, or North Africa through Spain", which I would guess translates to ancient ancestry. He also said that it could be endemic to European populations, although people have gotten completely European paintings with no Mideast segments. Hard to tell whether it's ancient or recent, but they're roughly 30Mb in length. Could they represent perhaps a great great great grandparent, or something even further back?

    Other than that, are the results normal the given ancestry? And also out of curiosoty, though she's not 100% German, would it fit a German well?

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    I'm curious about how to interpret this map here, the one with the green and red dot. I know the green dot is supposed to be you, but what is the red dot for?

    Does it correspond in any way to the PCA plot? My understanding of the PCA graph is that it puts you in an average spot of your ancestry.

    I have a question, in the McDonald's analysis, what kind of ancestry does the Europe (various subcontinents) result represent? How does that differ from Europe (all Western Europe)?

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    Our Interpretome results

    Similarity

    Individual Similarity
    Noah 83.376%
    Rob 84.033%
    Stuart 79.600%
    Nick 84.064%
    Konrad 83.478%
    Church 83.312%

    Whoever those folks are, I have no idea


    Ancestry by PCA



    # of SNPs 100,000

    Using settings
    X-axis=1
    Y-axis=4

    HGDP: European

    The Red square is right there on the the zero point for both axis, clustering with Northern Europeans



    HGDP World

    Just below the zero horisontal axis, and slightly right of the -60 (European)




    Hapmap World

    -2 on the x axis, between -50 and -55 on the y

    between CEU, (a sample of Northern European people living in Utah) and GIH, which are Injuns from Houston, for some reason they are close to each other on these plots, might reflect a simalar Iberian ancestral component according to some



    MidEast/Jewish

    x=10, and just left of the -40 y axis among Romanians and Hungarians, which are the only Europeans on this map, and probably where most Europeans will show up when they use this one



    POPRES: European

    The black square is between the horizontal 0 and the 5, and on the vertical -60, right next to two Belgians and an Irish (I recommend removing the UK flags)




    Ancestry painting

    100% European at default settings

    I shall withhold nothing from the Gestapo.

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