Page 4 of 13 FirstFirst 123456789 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 121

Thread: Thoughts on Suicide?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Stanley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Last Online
    Thursday, August 22nd, 2019 @ 09:15 PM
    Ethnicity
    American of Northwestern European descent
    Ancestry
    Ireland, Sweden, Colonial America, Luxemburg
    Location
    Midwest
    Gender
    Age
    29
    Posts
    226
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    18
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8
    Thanked in
    8 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Odalman View Post
    Stanley, cut out that crap.

    This is the Skadi version of "Reducto Ad Hitlerum"; when you don't like what someone else has to say, you immediately resort to comparing them with liberals or political correctness.
    I was mostly referring to this. I think it's an appropriate response.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feyn View Post
    I would like to thank TSPASGAN for his point. Strangely too many here have a rather narrow idea about why someoone would commit suicide, or what suicide even is. Let me quote another website here ( newsgroup alt.suicide.methods,alt.suicide.holiday, talk.euthanasia: a practical guide to suicide ) :


    we need to devise scenarios for the typical experiences people are having when they are suicidal, like those who:

    * are sick and dying anyway and want an easy way
    out that doesn't involve a lot of mobility

    * are depressed and can't find the motivation to
    go great distances

    * are disgusted with life and want a way out that
    isn't too painful, messy or likely to fail

    * want to die for any reason and are afraid of
    being discovered, seen as a coward, or judged as
    evil by those she loves and is obsessed with

    * want to go out in a blaze of glory, making a
    strong statement against all their enemies

    * want revenge on some society, group or person,
    and want to use their suicide as a means of
    achieving this

    * want to become an enigma or a media sensation,
    challenging the boundaries of narcissus

  2. #32
    New Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Online
    Sunday, November 13th, 2011 @ 08:02 PM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Gender
    Posts
    9
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    I can't imagine just completely giving up on life. We're all gonna die eventually anyway, can't they just wait it out and keep themselves busy

  3. #33
    Moderator "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Sigurd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Online
    4 Days Ago @ 08:36 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    German
    Ancestry
    Bavarii, Saxones, Suebi, Alamanni
    Subrace
    Borreby + Atlantonordoid
    Country
    Germany Germany
    Location
    Einöde in den Alpen
    Gender
    Age
    31
    Zodiac Sign
    Libra
    Family
    Engaged
    Politics
    Tradition & Homeland
    Religion
    Odinist
    Posts
    9,109
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    73
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    218
    Thanked in
    127 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Feyn View Post
    Sigurd i found your last comment a little hypocritical. One the one hand you say it is very noble and honourable to kill yourself for the benefit of those around you, to help your comrades.
    On the comrades part I was more thinking of the type of suicide where a grenade gets thrown into the group and one guy sits down on the grenade, sacrificing him so the rest of his group can survive instead of losing let's say five out of ten.

    Alternatively the wounded man who kills himself because vital signs might betray their position on a field of modern warfare with heat & movement radar.

    Then in your 4th point you condemn blowing yourself up in a holy war. Just because you dont like their goals its not any less noble to kill yourself for the benefit of those around you.
    Um, no. I don't think there's something particularly "noble" in walking into a group of civilians and then blowing oneself up holding the unarmed crowd for unknowing collaterals. It's no single bit more honourable than ABB firing at youths on Utųya, in fact you could say it's worse because at least Breivik's victims had the chance to see what killed them and some still had the chance to say hasty goodbyes to their families.

    I thought it was pretty evident that f.ex. the Kamikaze flyers of Japan's WWII force weren't included in Group #4, but somewhere between #1 and #2. It's also clear that the guy who blows himself up when captured by alien soldiers (his faith or code of honour may commandeer him so) might fall under #2 and the guy who blows himself up near soldiers about to enter his home village actually falls under #1. These aren't acts of "holy war", these are acts of defense.

    Some Islamist suicide bomber blowing himself up in the middle of an underground train hardly committed a noble suicide; at least it wouldn't be any nobler than if I stormed into the local synagogue and gunned down everyone present during service for the Jewish influence over my country.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

  4. #34
    Senior Member Sybren's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Online
    Saturday, August 25th, 2012 @ 05:28 PM
    Ethnicity
    Frisian
    Ancestry
    Frisian, Saxon
    Subrace
    Atlantid
    Country
    Netherlands Netherlands
    State
    Frisia Frisia
    Gender
    Age
    35
    Politics
    Frisian nationalist
    Religion
    Agnostic
    Posts
    930
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    3 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Odalman View Post
    Finally, committing suicide just because you don't want to try harder in life would be the third one, the dishonorable kind.
    I don't think you can judge another on that. What goes on in anothers' mind might be so excruciatingly unbearable that we cannot even imagine it. It's one of those things that we want to look at objectively, but we really can't. Trying to understand someone like that will get us nowhere.
    Būter, brea en griene tsiis
    Wa't dat net sizze kin is gjin oprjochte Fries!

  5. #35
    Funding Member
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Žoreišar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Online
    8 Minutes Ago @ 01:19 PM
    Ethnicity
    Scandinavian
    Ancestry
    East Norwegian + distant Finnish
    Subrace
    Nordid + reduced CM
    Y-DNA
    I1a1
    Country
    Norway Norway
    Location
    Sweden
    Gender
    Age
    29
    Occupation
    Traditional Craftsman
    Politics
    Family, Nation & Nature
    Religion
    Heathen Worldview
    Posts
    2,310
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,174
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,306
    Thanked in
    641 Posts
    I believe some people simply aren't meant for this World, in several aspects, and deserve to feel the ease of not living anymore, instead of keep living a life that just keeps gnawing on them. Sure, it will in most cases be very hard for the person's near family to bear their suicide, but I don't think that's the responsability for any person that has not chosen to be granted the (in their case) curse of life. Of course, that doesn't not apply to anyone who has children of their own to support, in my opinion.
    A nation is an organic thing, historically defined.
    A wave of passionate energy which unites past, present and future generations

  6. #36
    Moderator "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Sigurd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Online
    4 Days Ago @ 08:36 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    German
    Ancestry
    Bavarii, Saxones, Suebi, Alamanni
    Subrace
    Borreby + Atlantonordoid
    Country
    Germany Germany
    Location
    Einöde in den Alpen
    Gender
    Age
    31
    Zodiac Sign
    Libra
    Family
    Engaged
    Politics
    Tradition & Homeland
    Religion
    Odinist
    Posts
    9,109
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    73
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    218
    Thanked in
    127 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    I believe some people simply aren't meant for this World, in several aspects, and deserve to feel the ease of not living anymore, instead of keep living a life that just keeps gnawing on them.
    Then let them volunteer for the draft or something. If you really want to die because life seems so pointless to you, then at least have the decency to do something worthwhile before you go. You'll either find a purpose in life and be glad to be able to live for another day --- or you'll die. Win/win situation.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

  7. #37
    Senior Member Unity Mitford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Last Online
    Friday, August 24th, 2012 @ 02:03 PM
    Status
    Prolonged Absence
    Ethnicity
    English
    Gender
    Family
    Engaged
    Posts
    516
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    3 Posts
    my friend is suicidal. i think love and reason can cure his problems, but he does not. he is single and unemployed, so considers himself useless.
    he is a very good man and perfectly intelligent, but his family and his society has really failed him.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Unity Mitford For This Useful Post:


  9. #38
    Funding Member
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Žoreišar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Online
    8 Minutes Ago @ 01:19 PM
    Ethnicity
    Scandinavian
    Ancestry
    East Norwegian + distant Finnish
    Subrace
    Nordid + reduced CM
    Y-DNA
    I1a1
    Country
    Norway Norway
    Location
    Sweden
    Gender
    Age
    29
    Occupation
    Traditional Craftsman
    Politics
    Family, Nation & Nature
    Religion
    Heathen Worldview
    Posts
    2,310
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,174
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,306
    Thanked in
    641 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    Then let them volunteer for the draft or something. If you really want to die because life seems so pointless to you [...]
    Not necessarily just life, but the World/Cosmos in itself. What then is the purpose of going into battle?
    A nation is an organic thing, historically defined.
    A wave of passionate energy which unites past, present and future generations

  10. #39
    Moderator "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Sigurd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Online
    4 Days Ago @ 08:36 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    German
    Ancestry
    Bavarii, Saxones, Suebi, Alamanni
    Subrace
    Borreby + Atlantonordoid
    Country
    Germany Germany
    Location
    Einöde in den Alpen
    Gender
    Age
    31
    Zodiac Sign
    Libra
    Family
    Engaged
    Politics
    Tradition & Homeland
    Religion
    Odinist
    Posts
    9,109
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    73
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    218
    Thanked in
    127 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    Not necessarily just life, but the World/Cosmos in itself. What then is the purpose of going into battle?
    (Insert "world/cosmos" into "life/death" in the first paragraph if you please).

    Finding something worthwhile to do until life or death takes its course anyway. He could just be going from battle to battle as a mercenary, without any obligations, without anything to live for, just to try and see how far and how long he can run from what he wishes to embrace before it catches up with him.

    Also, very few people fully understand and respect life unless they've had a close encounter with death, very few people fully understand and respect death unless they've had a close encounter with life.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

  11. #40
    Account Inactive
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last Online
    Thursday, May 3rd, 2012 @ 10:29 PM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    Mainly Yorkshire
    Country
    England England
    State
    Yorkshire Yorkshire
    Location
    Yorkshire
    Gender
    Age
    34
    Politics
    Libertarian
    Posts
    2,111
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8
    Thanked in
    8 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
    First is that I dislike the criticism of humanity as being too judgemental. I find it's mostly used by those with ugly, depraved lifestyles who incessantly rail against what has ever been seen as right by society. I know you're a libertarian so you'll no doubt disagree with me here, but a healthy society needs to have social stigma directed against antisocial behavior, which leads me into something more on topic.
    I think our differences on the nature of society are going to be an obstacle to reaching an agreement on this. If anything, I see typical reactions to suicide as a window, maybe the window, into the shaky foundations of civilisation and the supposed bonds between man and man. I haven't found anything that more clearly portrays the inherent schadenfreude in our attitude toward one another. But I think I really need to explain what I've experienced before I explain the whys, so I'm going to have to respond to your post a bit backwards.

    I also feel you're hyperbolizing the judgement passed on suicides, because, in my experience, it's been quite the opposite, where there's an overwhelming influx of feigned sympathy for the person, even if that person was an absolute bastard for severely damaging the lives of whomever they left behind.
    Believe me, there was no hyperbole whatsoever. I've always been intrigued by the human condition. In my late teens I ran a whole bunch of informal studies (and by that I mean I was dicking around, but for a purpose) out of sheer curiosity about what people really are underneath all the pretense. These usually consisted merely in visiting a site, writing X on my profile, and waiting for the responses to X. There was a complete series of these, but the one thing that always struck me was the peculiar hate I received when 'X' was 'I'm feeling down and thinking about killing myself'. It was unbridled. There was an unfathomably high ratio of insults, mocking, encouragements to follow through with my threats, etc., to sympathetic responses (which were often nil). And, yes, I tried it on a whole different bunch of sites: formal ones, informal ones, public, private, professional, casual, British, American, etc. My experience was always essentially the same, with degree of anonymity being pretty much the only variable.

    I've noticed traces of this attitude in real life, although nowhere near as extreme. The phenomenon of baiting crowds, to me, shows it's not just an internet thing, and that I was tapping into something real in the human psyche. It's not unrare to hear the 'coward's way out' line in everyday life, but, as I say, you don't see the full brunt of it in polite society. Religious groups tend to be more open about their lack of sympathy in public and outside of anonymity, but online or in private there's no such ecclesiastical distinction, and I'll give my theory on that below.

    The problem with suicide is that it almost always has a negative impact, as most people--even the most lonely--have relationships of substance with other people. Those who commit suicide either don't see how (i.e. they don't realize there are people who care about them and will be devastated by their death) or they just don't have a modicum of concern for how those people might feel if they do kill themselves. The former are generally the teenagers and young adults who feel alienated from the world, and the latter are those who usually have a family, abuse one substance or another, and don't care to live life any longer, and it's this latter group that comprises most of the suicides I've encountered in real life and epitomizes the selfish and irresponsible nature of suicide. The brilliant mind that decides to kill themselves because of utter isolation and despair is a rarity.
    There's a whole host of reasons why people choose to kill themselves, but I honestly believe our reaction is unconnected to any of those specifics (except the 'honourable'/'dishonourable' distinction, which, again, I'll come to later). And this, I think, is where I need to sketch a picture of how I see society. I think society, or civilisation, is an artificial throwing together of autonomous and highly selfish subjects that spurn each other's existence, but for the sake of greasing the wheels of everyday interaction, and in consideration of the fact that the pros of a truce (however uneasy it may be) between a man and his neighbours far outweigh the cons, we learn to dissimulate our true feelings for each other very effectively. But we don't expunge these feelings, they don't abate, not even partially -- they linger on, ever bubbling beneath the surface of our relations with others. They continually ache to express themselves, and wherever the opportunity arises (i.e. when free of the risk of such consequences as they were originally suppressed in order to avoid), they do. We see true, natural humanity in children. The cruelty we observe in them isn't lost on entry to adulthood. We don't learn to be moral: we learn to appear to be moral. It's all fragile artifice, and easily gives way to a much darker human underbelly in any kind of private exchange. In short, where there's no motivation for kindness (as in preserving a reputation), the dark forces usually working beneath the surface of human interaction dominate.

    By no means all, but many, delight in the misfortune of others. We especially resent having to feign upset and concern for others, and feigned, I agree with you, is what most of the time it is. I've spent a bit of time wondering why it is that suicide garners more contempt than, say, the victim of an accidental death. I think the main reason is that in accident the victim, although annoying us by making us feign pity, isn't directly responsible for his lot. We can't hold him accountable for being hit by a bus or eaten by a Chinaman, so we give him a touch more slack. The suicide victim, however, is the direct cause of the type of thing that really gets under our skin: having to strain ourselves in squeezing out a false emotion. Of course, there's also the possibility that people just love to rub salt in the wound, out of pure malice, or perhaps that need to exert some kind of (profound) influence over another to redress the complete impotence we feel in real life. But I don't think this more obvious theory explains why a terminal patient would receive less scorn than someone threatening suicide (although believe me, they get some -- any kind of perceived request for understanding or sympathy is bound to meet with at least some scorn).

    I also don't think it's fair to say Christianity is the cause of most attitudes to suicide, as some have suggested, although I understand it has a cultural impact; rather it's probably just seized upon as a convenient pretext to express what in others is usually bottled up. I think that actually explains a lot of the characteristics of the devoutly religious, to be honest. Their religion and its sanctions serve as an excuse for the release of less than desirable traits that nonetheless exist in us all and are constantly seeking justification.

    If that makes me judgemental, fine, but I will never condone suicide as long as we still have a social structure built on our intimate relationships with other people.
    My post is a lot longer than I wanted it to be. I wanted to add a bunch of sub-clauses and disclaimers to allay the (understandable) impression of being a rabid misanthrope. Everything I said above is exaggeration. I really just wanted to get a certain point across, which wouldn't have been made in less than three million words if I'd constantly introduced counter-arguments. Obviously, most people aren't walking around with a burning hatred for everyone they see, and many people genuinely do care for others, even people they don't know. I just wanted to illustrate the tendencies that I believe exist in us as a species, and the reasons we can be quite shockingly callous about things. I also don't believe it's truly inherent in us. Violence and cruelty are, yes. But I believe in a small communal gathering we can genuinely have a naturally positive disposition toward one another. I think living in too large a community, a global one nowadays, is unnatural and creates the kind of indifference to or hatred of others that makes us not want to be inconvienced with thinking about their problems.

    I know I could have made my replies more pertinent to your own points, but I just wanted to clear up why I thought it was ugliness and why I think it exists. I'm making no judgements about you or human nature as such.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Hamar Fox For This Useful Post:


Page 4 of 13 FirstFirst 123456789 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. The Suicide of Europe - The How and Why
    By Nachtengel in forum Immigration & Multiculturalism
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 5 Days Ago, 03:39 PM
  2. Norway Commits Suicide
    By Aeternitas in forum Norway
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: Friday, February 25th, 2011, 11:43 AM
  3. Icelandic Newspaper Causes Suicide
    By nordnerd in forum Iceland
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: Thursday, January 19th, 2006, 06:15 PM
  4. Suicide 'most likely on Mondays'
    By Blutwölfin in forum Psychology, Behavior, & Neuroscience
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Sunday, August 28th, 2005, 09:03 AM
  5. Schopenhauer's thoughts on suicide
    By Frans_Jozef in forum Modern
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: Tuesday, December 14th, 2004, 01:00 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •