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Thread: Thoughts on Suicide?

  1. #21
    Eala Freia Fresena
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    I can understand your friend who is not afraid anymore of death. Once I scratched by (through an accident falling in and out of consciousness for days) at one point I gave up to fight for life and it was fine whether I die or I don't.

    I woke up but from then on my life only belonged to me, it was a gift, I didn't owe anybody anything anymore. Sure a lot of fear left and without fear life is different.

    For suicide there are different reason, some noble, some understandable and some are plain nonsense.

    The person makes the decision and they are responsible for it.

    May the Gods have mercy on their souls
    weel nich will dieken dej mot wieken

  2. #22
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    Suicide is like any murder IMHO grouped into several groups which should be judged by those around them differently, graded on the level at which the choice of ending one's life prematurely contributes to any benefit for those who will be around to mourn:

    1.) Morally sound and potentially indispensable, even honourable suicide: Killing oneself to be one less mouth to feed, killing oneself to prevent continued life from acting as involuntary betrayal to one's comrades, sacrificing oneself for the benefit of those around one.

    2.) Morally understandable or ritual suicide: Being terminally ill, or as dictated by an honour codex of a people, profession, group in a given situation - including a religious reason.

    3.) Morally ambivalent, but not comdemnatory suicide: Seeing no quality in life and acting to pre-empt a situation in which a #2-suicide is called for. Fleeing from a difficult situation and opting that free death is a favourable choice to living enslavement.

    4.) Condemnable or non-understandable suicide: Choosing to take the easy route out. Picking the "seeing no quality" option with remaining obligations in life (such as dependent children, etc.) Blowing oneself up in an act of misguided holy wars; or of course the classic, killing oneself for the heck of it, etc.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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  4. #23
    Bloodhound
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    In German there are two distinctive words for suicide: "Selbstmord" [self-murder] and "Freitod" [voluntary-death], these words should explain it very well
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Sigurd i found your last comment a little hypocritical. One the one hand you say it is very noble and honourable to kill yourself for the benefit of those around you, to help your comrades. Then in your 4th point you condemn blowing yourself up in a holy war. Just because you dont like their goals its not any less noble to kill yourself for the benefit of those around you.
    One surely has to differentiate between suicide bombers who attack soldiers in a war and those who attack inncocent civilians sometimes even kids. The latter is surely to be condemned but the first isnt any less noibler because you hate their goals.
    There won't be humans in 500 years. Enough people choke themselves when they jerk off we gave it a name. We ain't a species made to last.

    Judging by it´s name common sense must once have been a pretty common thing. When and why did that change, so it became the rare treasure it is today???

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    Senior Member Unity Mitford's Avatar
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    i am bipolar and i often have these thoughts (for a variety of reasons) but the truth is, i could never kill myself for the sake of elder family members.

    if, however, i died naturally and on a career high, i would not mind so much, as long as everyone knew i was happy and how much i loved them.

  7. #26
    Senior Member The Aesthete's Avatar
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    No way

    Our people need us
    Our beauty is our power, our strength. We can’t allow them to change us, to lessen us. I will never grant them that satisfaction, and neither should you!

    White Oleander

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  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feyn View Post
    Well then let me share the story of a very good friend since my childhood. He was depressed for many years to the point he got suicidal. But what stopped him from actually doing it was am immense fear of dying. He had aquired quite an interesting collection of ways to kill himself (and i dont want to know where he got some of the stuff, he even had cyanide capsules and phenobarbital, which is used to euthanize animals). He also had a whole collection of books, you wouldnt believe what you can get your hands on if you are determined enough like spreadsheets from actual henchmen with bodyweight and drophight to secure breaking the neck without decapitation (apparently that happened quite a lot in earlier days ).
    Then one day his attitude seemed quite changed. His depression seemed gone, I kinew this is a warning sign in people with suicidal tendencies, so i wanted to talk to him as quick as possible. We had a conversation that blew my mind, and is the reasaon i started this thread. He explained to me he has finally overcome his fear of death and made an interesting discovery. Once you have overcome your fear of death and are ready to take your life at any point you choose life signifficantly changes. He can do now whatever he wants, without much conseuquences. Too dangerous ? Who cares, its not like you want to live anyway. Debt at the bank ? Who cares, its not like i am artound to actually have to pay for all that. It opens you up to experiences a normal person would really have trouble to have for fear of consequences. Unprotected sex ? As if any std has the potential to scare you. Drugs ? Who cares if i get hooked and OD has also lost all its horrors. Basejumping or any other adrenalin junkie sport ? Why not. He is actively planning a tour through afghanistan. I have never see him happier. He says if he is evert in a situation where he feels he fucked up enough he will finally end his life. I frind that a strangely alluring philosophy

    Your friend seems to have taken the path I did when I was younger. I used to be suicidal when I was around 14, my first year of high school. The 3 years of middle school prior were almost as bad as 9th grade, but it got worse that year so I gave up on life. At some point I hit a breaking point where I felt about like what he was telling you. I didn't fear death though I just was tired of living because home life was awful and I had no friends at school and got picked on a lot at the time and had no friends. so I would go from being hit and made fun of at school to being hit and yelled at home.

    For me not to long after that point breaking point, I evolved past that and found a new lease on life basically. I decided I matter more than the people being ass holes and it was time to make a place for me to be happy. I fought off everyone mean to me at school and I fought off my dad. Thank god I did, me and him got a much better relationship after I stopped him from being the way he was. At school I tried harder to make friends. By my third year I had a good group of friend, no one really messed with me and my home life was good. Life still is good, no matter what life throws at me it doesn't matter now, I can take anything.

    Since I got out of being suicidal I have had a very harsh view of those looking to commit suicide. The ones with real issues wanting to die I feel bad for and I hope they get help because they are being completely stupid. Suicide is the probably the most selfish act you can commit. Not to mention stupid, if people are the cause like it is for a lot of teens. They need to learn to take it out on the people, not themselves. Obviously not going as far as columbine, but they really just need to stand up for themselves.

    Though there are also situations where suicide isn't so awful. If a cancer patient who had no chance shot themselves, i would understand. I could understand if someone gets crippled and did it, though this day in you shouldn't give up to early. Who knows what device will be made in the next 10 years to help cripples. Also the people in 9/11 who had 0 chance of being saved and didn't want to die in the fire, in my opinion had full right to commit suicide.

  10. #28
    Senior Member Stanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    In German there are two distinctive words for suicide: "Selbstmord" [self-murder] and "Freitod" [voluntary-death], these words should explain it very well
    It's unfortunate English doesn't make such a distinction between what are obviously two different things, because in an argument like this, the fact that there are honorable situations to kill yourself (voluntary-death) seems to be used as justification for suicide in general, which is disproportionately dishonorable (self-murder).

    Anyway, this discussion is rather irritating in that those who aren't sympathetic to suicide (of the self-murder variety) are deemed ignorant and incapable of understanding the fragile, tormented minds of those who end up killing themselves. In that way it reminds me a lot of everyday politically correct discourse.

  11. #29
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    There are so many factors that can lead to suicide that it's impossible to make a general statement as to whether the act is reprehensible or not.

    As far as ending one's own life when terminally ill is concerned, I've watched both my parents die lingering deaths from cancer and would have fully understood if they'd ended their own suffering. I will certainly do so if I ever find myself in a similar situation and a bullet in the head would be my preferred choice.

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  13. #30
    Senior Member Alfadur's Avatar
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    I don't have much to add to this topic, as Sigurd explained it well enough. There is the honorable kind of suicide, the understandable kind, and the downright dishonorable kind. Dying to protect someone you love or sacrificing yourself for a higher ideal and the common good would fit the first one. Killing yourself when you're suffering from a terminal disease or old age, that's understandable and would fit the second one (I totally accept that some people want to be put out of their misery). Finally, committing suicide just because you don't want to try harder in life would be the third one, the dishonorable kind.

    And indeed, as someone else stated before, it's a product of the bourgeois-Christian cowardly morality to value material comforts above all and shun the idea of the voluntary death.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
    In that way it reminds me a lot of everyday discourse where I have to be careful not to say something politically incorrect.
    Stanley, cut out that crap.

    This is the Skadi version of "Reducto Ad Hitlerum"; when you don't like what someone else has to say, you immediately resort to comparing them with liberals or political correctness.

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