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Thread: Are Nordic People More Warlike and Tough?

  1. #81
    Senior Member Sigyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freja_se View Post
    No, I don't know what he means by his odd interpretation of "Nordic", and that is why I asked.
    His odd interpretation of "Nordic" is the correct one - a person native to a Nordic country, of that country's ethnic group. Granraude was mainly talking about the phenotypical differences among natives in Nordic countries - I'm a more Nordid type and he is a Borreby, yet we're both Nordic. None of us ever thought of mulattos as Nordic, and you know it.

    For the record, I have no reason to trust the motives or agenda of everyone writing on this site..

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    Senior Member Freja_se's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigyn View Post
    His odd interpretation of "Nordic" is the correct one - a person native to a Nordic country, of that country's ethnic group.
    Again, that is not at all what he said, so let us not be dishonest. In fact, what he originally wrote could easily be seen as the exact opposite of what you just wrote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Granraude View Post
    Nordid is a phenotype. Nordic is a person from a Nordic country,regardless of phenotype.

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    Senior Member Angelcynn Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irmingot View Post
    And that thing in the middle of his face? That nose is nothing near Nordic (almost looks Dinaric). Had he been Swede, I would have guessed he was a gypsy/finn bastard. That's the way they look.
    It's his nose. There's nothing wrong with his nose, and nothing un-Nordic about it. It isn't hooked or Dinaric looking. His nose is no more pronounced, and his face is no more rugged, than many of the examples that Coon gives of pure Nordic types.





    Well, that MMA guy probably has the least amount of Nordic blood, among all the various sorts he carry (background research seems to support this). Saying he is Nordic is pure pseudo-science, and why people takes this whole matter about as serious as astrology or phrenology.
    If you think physical anthropology is pseudo-science then why are you debating me about it? Exactly what about him is Mongoloid?




    And how would you know what skull index they have? That proto-humanoid looking rugby guy sure looks like he has one of them rugby balls for head.
    I can get a rough idea of their index by simply looking at their head. And Robshaw and Jancker are either Dolichocephalic or low Mesocephals.

    And yes, of course there are Nordics in other locations than Scandinavia, but the highest concentration is without doubt here. And I tell you, a pointy nose and somewhat of a prolonged backhead isn't enough to be Nordic. This seems to be what you focus on. Bringing that huge nosed guy to mind.
    Percentage wise Scandinavia has the highest occurrence, but in raw numbers England and Germany have more Nordics in Europe, and America almost certainly has most living Nordics.

    Nope it sure is not. And there are Nordic people who are - of course - but it sure is no key trait. Quite the contrary. A friend of mine is an archaeologist with special focus on osteology, and he could easily support the claim that most Scandinavian skeletal material isn't from "rugged" but finer built individuals. The more "rugged" types are frequently found in lower class graves.
    UP/CM types are pretty much top of the pile when it comes to rugged characteristics, and compared to them Nordics are generally finer. But compared to Europeans in general, or even the world population in general, Nordics are amongst the most strongly built of all sub-races. Not the slender, almost elven, racial type they are sometimes portrayed as.

    At least we agree on that then. The explanation is probably mostly a matter of oxygen and agility, and not so much else. I remember earlier, when I was a lot more muscular (due to steroids and intense training), I almost lost my breath and felt dizzy when doing things which demanded stamina and endurance. Small lungs and vast amounts of muscles isn't a very good mix. I might add, I could not even scratch my own back those days.
    As a general rule i think people perform best when they stick closest to activities their body is best suited for. Skinny people can get hyooge with lots of training, but they will probably never trouble the really massive guys at any strength sports. Similarly big guys can become good at long distance running if they train for it, but they'll never beat the genetic grey hounds of mankind. I'm somewhere in the middle, athletically muscular to borrow a cliche. It has served me well in most sports i've been involved in, it seems a sort of "generalist" build.

    You are obviously not familiar with special forces like Spetsnaz and SAS? Just do a search for Spetsnaz and close combat, for example. I had an officer in the military, who was a former mercenary. He had been on various high risk operations around the globe. He looked like a grayhound really. And in some instances, he had been into real close combat too (he told stories of all sorts of weird Rambo'esque scenarios).
    And, if you have ever carried around on a +50 kg's backpack in mountain terrain, for 7 days in a row without hardly any food or sleep, you should know how things are. Someone looking like a rugby player wouldn't make it, since he would need to carry that 50 kg's in his own food supply solely. War isn't about being dropped down with a helicopter, shoot some bursts and go home and play video games and eat junk food. It demands a physical elite, only seen among marathon runners and skiers otherwise.
    Yes i'm familiar with them and have military experience myself. That was the point i was trying to make, the physical demands for modern warfare lean heavily in favour of endurance. Massive amounts of strength or explosive speed really pay very little role these days. Whereas on a medieval battlefield strength would have been a much greater advantage, as would quick reflexes, a long reach, etc. The physical demands of being a good warrior have changed over the intervening thousand years of history.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigyn View Post
    His odd interpretation of "Nordic" is the correct one - a person native to a Nordic country, of that country's ethnic group. Granraude was mainly talking about the phenotypical differences among natives in Nordic countries - I'm a more Nordid type and he is a Borreby, yet we're both Nordic.
    You can be culturally Nordic and sub-racially Borreby. You can also be sub-racially Nordic and culturally something completely different.

    In English Nordic has been the accepted term for the racial type of Northern Europe for over a hundred years, whereas Nordid had a few takers in the 70s (who probably adopted the terminology from German) but the trend never caught on.
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  4. #84
    Senior Member Patrioten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelcynn Beorn View Post
    You can be culturally Nordic and sub-racially Borreby. You can also be sub-racially Nordic and culturally something completely different.

    In English Nordic has been the accepted term for the racial type of Northern Europe for over a hundred years, whereas Nordid had a few takers in the 70s (who probably adopted the terminology from German) but the trend never caught on.
    Indeed.

    An excerpt from a Swedish lexicon anno early 1900s:

    http://runeberg.org/nfcg/0558.html

    "The tall, blonde and long-skulled type with an oval face, that is, the pure germanic or nordic race, is unmistakably - and this is even more evident by the experiences in other countries - in retreat. It is being overrun by the short, shortskulled and brunette type with the rounder face, or the alpine race, in the south, as well as the short, short skulled and black haired lapp race, blonde and brunette finnish races with square to rounded faces in the north. These three races tend to distribute themselves at the expense of the Nordic race, in the south directly or indirectly, in the north perhaps mostly indirectly. The alpine race is probably culturally inferior to the Nordic one, the lapp and finnish ones most certainly are."

    The Nordic race, also called the Swedish race in Swedish anthropology, did infact refer to a subrace which was spread beyond the borders of the Nordic countries, and characterized by a doliocephalic skull, long oval face and with blonde hair and to a large degree blue eyes.

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    Senior Member Freja_se's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelcynn Beorn View Post
    It's his nose. There's nothing wrong with his nose, and nothing un-Nordic about it. It isn't hooked or Dinaric looking. His nose is no more pronounced, and his face is no more rugged, than many of the examples that Coon gives of pure Nordic types.





    The first one does not look particularly ethnically Nordic, especially not in the en face picture. Maybe he could be a mixture of Nordic and Dinaric.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freja_se View Post
    The first one does not look particularly ethnically Nordic, especially not in the en face picture. Maybe he could be a mixture of Nordic and Dinaric.
    actually he is Coon's example of keltic nordid which sub race IS largely related with dinarics. (dinarcized nordic) afaik

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    Senior Member Angelcynn Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eiriksson View Post
    actually he is Coon's example of keltic nordid which sub race IS largely related with dinarics. (dinarcized nordic) afaik
    Coon classifies the Keltic Nordic as one of the 2 central Nordic types. Having re-read his section on them, the only group he mentions which could have had an influence on them are the Bell Beaker people, which he describes as a Dinaricised Borreby type
    I am Ripper... Tearer... Slasher... Gouger.
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    Senior Member Ekonhammer's Avatar
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    Certainly not.

    And I am so tired of hearing our Germanic ancestors describes as bloodthirsty plunderers! The fact is, Germanic tribes who pushed southward toward the northern borders of Pagan Rome were not looking for a fight, but were seeking vacant lands to cultivate. Climactic changes causing Northern Europe to suddenly get colder and wetter forced many of our brave ancestors southward in search of better climate and arabale fields. Roman cronicles tell of our ancestors suddenly appearing near the Limes in great numbers in wagons with oxen and family members.

    Together with their prized Oxen, Germanic clans travelled in greater families; that is right; together with their wives and offspring in large troops, they camped outside the Limes and in fact carried on peaceful trade with the Legeons in the Castilla on the other side!

    Ofcourse it came to blows often enough. The Romans had a job to do and they were not about to allow hoards of "uncivilized" intruders to march straight onto Roman lands and start farming! Manny battles were fought and not too often our Germanic forebearers prevailed often enough to be granted stay. Well known is the fact that Imperial Generals usually persuaded Germanic Chieftans that the best lands for the taking were in Gaul. And so tribes like the Alamani, Franken and Burgunder eventually settled in that land in great number. In time dozens of clans and tribes, (or parts of tribes), were allowed by treaty to settle upon Roman held lands.

    Stop believing that every Roman wanted only to kill every German. This is nonsense. We all know that in time, it was German blood and German kultur that assumed administrative leadership in Rome. There was much mutual respect on both sides of these historical events. In later Christianized Rome, Under Theodorics rule, no Pope could be appointed without that famous Germanic leaders approval.

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    Senior Member Freja_se's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekonhammer View Post
    Ofcourse it came to blows often enough. The Romans had a job to do and they were not about to allow hoards of "uncivilized" intruders to march straight onto Roman lands and start farming!

    Well, this man had a job to do too, and he did it well.


    Hermann the Liberator






    Sadly, I don't think many people know how hugely important this man was
    to Germanics, that he and his Germanic warriors crushed three Roman legions in the Teutoburg Forest, preventing Roman expansion. I wish that more people knew his story.


    "TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO A HERO LIVED, a charismatic man who changed the course of global history. Yet his name, Arminius, or Hermann, or Armin, is seldom heard. The Germanics probably called him Armin, but
    his name became Hermann in the centuries to follow (generally attributed to Martin Luther). The Romans knew him as Arminius, it being the habit of the Romans to add the suffix “ius” or “us” to names. Here is his story . . .



    Arminius was a Germanic prince, who, with the greatest distinction, served
    the Roman empire. He commanded their first German auxiliary cavalry and achieved the status of Roman citizen and knight (eques). As a boy, Arminius and his younger brother, Flavus, were taken to Rome and indoctrinated and trained to promote the glory of the ever-expanding Roman empire, this also being a custom of the Romans to “borrow” the sons of “barbarian” chieftains for a time for just this purpose.


    But upon return to his homeland in Germania, Arminius witnessed the tyranny and oppression of his own people at the hands of the Roman occupiers. The Germanic tribes were fiercely independent and racially Nordic and not accustomed to the imposition of unfair laws, physical abuses and taxes without their consent. Justice became as foreign as the new Roman governor, Varus—a privileged, yet lecherous and loathsome tyrant.



    Varus was tasked by Augustus Caesar to bring Germania to her knees—in unquestioning servitude to Rome. As a tribal noble and commander of all of the auxiliary forces in Germania, Arminius was assigned to assist the
    languorous, yet power-consumed governor. Arminius knew the ways of both the Romans and the Germans and became an invaluable advisor—but one torn by his sworn loyalty to Rome and his natural loyalty to his land and kinfolk, with their sense of fair play and justice.


    Arminius also met and fell in love with a beautiful German princess, Thusnelda. Their love story is one of the greatest and most unbelievable in history, yet true. Thusnelda’s father, Segestes, an ambitious noble who saw
    the benefits of serving Rome, condemned the union and became a bitter foe to Arminius. But the young lovers defied him and eloped—setting off a string of events that changed the face of the continent."


    Here is the full article: http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publis...le_57591.shtml

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekonhammer View Post
    And I am so tired of hearing our Germanic ancestors describes as bloodthirsty plunderers! The fact is, Germanic tribes who pushed southward toward the northern borders of Pagan Rome were not looking for a fight, but were seeking vacant lands to cultivate. Climactic changes causing Northern Europe to suddenly get colder and wetter forced many of our brave ancestors southward in search of better climate and arabale fields. Roman cronicles tell of our ancestors suddenly appearing near the Limes in great numbers in wagons with oxen and family members.
    That's true. The idea that Germanic tribes were savage barbarians is mostly the invention of Roman Christian authors. They were just relocating and seeking for good lands to farm. The relationship between the Germanics and the Roman empire was pretty complex as well, it wasn't a clear-cut struggle. For example: the Goths first attacked and looted Rome (after the Romans had oppressed them), and then suddenly became Rome's allies against the mongoloid Huns soon afterwards.

    Ofcourse it came to blows often enough. The Romans had a job to do and they were not about to allow hoards of "uncivilized" intruders to march straight onto Roman lands and start farming! Manny battles were fought and not too often our Germanic forebearers prevailed often enough to be granted stay. Well known is the fact that Imperial Generals usually persuaded Germanic Chieftans that the best lands for the taking were in Gaul. And so tribes like the Alamani, Franken and Burgunder eventually settled in that land in great number. In time dozens of clans and tribes, (or parts of tribes), were allowed by treaty to settle upon Roman held lands.
    AFAIK, this happened in the "Age of Migrations" when the Huns were invading Europe and pushed the Germanic tribes further away, forcing them closer to the Romans. Lots of factors behind the Germanic takeover of the West Roman Empire.

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